F2G Prelim Report

[Ken]

Thanks Rich. I've seen the videos and had the pleasure of seeing two, possibly three, of Bob's performances during our week at OSH this year. My point was simply trying follow up on the suggestion that maybe he had not intended to barrel roll but was trying to recover from a mechanical problem and maneuver to the nearest runway. If, for example, he always flew a barrel roll at that point, then that's the answer.

Typical wasn't my interest but what he was attempting that day is. Some guys probably fly identical routines to keep continuity, while others may change up on occasion to better fit the airspace, crowd location, or time constraints. I was just curious.

BTW, I don't intend to investigate nor solve this tragedy. Just like anyone, I'm just trying to deal with the situation in my own way. As an experienced pilot and newbie warbird pilot, Bob's accident has had a greater impact on me than any other. I know his reputation for excellence in so many areas and I just can't shake the feeling of, "if it could happen to him, what does that mean for the rest of us?" If there is some way that the facts can come to light to help explain the event, then it would certainly help me, and I assume a number of others, find peace with what has happened.

Ken

[JimH]

I don't want to sound like an advertisement but everyone on this board even remotely interested in aerobatics should go fly an intro flight. At best in the T-6 at Warbird Adventures or with Collings or Stallion in 51. It is possible for you to see, feel and experience the difference between an Aileron Roll and a Barrel Roll, or a Cuban 8 or a Reverse Cuban 8. The Mustang rolls slower to the left than to the right but the difference is negligible.

It has been my experience when teaching aerobatics to start rolling manuevers to the left. It seems more natural to people to push the stick left than to the right. Both pilots and non pilots tend to pull as they roll to the right. I've also had more people dish out of rolls to the right because of this. It's not unsafe because we are 5,000 feet up and I never let it get too far out of shape. I've also had more pilots than non-pilots experience this...believe me its easier to train than to untrain.

If you are doing a roll or even a barrel roll and you stop inverted and pull you will eat up more sky than you can imagine, and acceleration will be incredible, both in g's and speed. We always train to finish the roll, never pull through. Vertical manuevers have an exit right up to the point where you cross through the vertical on the downline, at which point you are pretty much committed. Here again we fly where ducks don't...4 - 8,000ft so there is always an exit.

Aerobatics in warbirds is eye opening to the layman. A loop in a Mustang can feel like its taking an eternity, and rolls are only alittle faster than a T-6. When done correctly and in good air its like dancing.

Jim

[Ken]

A loop in a Mustang can feel like its taking an eternity

Not to stray, but IIRC, the T-38 entered the loop at 500 KIAS and took 10,000' to complete. Once you were proficient, time really seemed to slow down and you felt the freedom to do things like look at the fuel gauges over the top, check pressurization, make a sandwich, whatever.

Thanks for sharing more insight Jim.

Ken

[Warbirdnerd]

They found the memory card. Hopefully it will help uncover what happened...

VALLEY CITY, N.D. — Investigators hope a recovered camera memory card will help them find out what caused an airplane crash that killed a veteran pilot.

Bob Odegaard died Sept. 7 when he crashed his vintage Super Corsair plane while practicing for a Valley City air show.

His plane had a camera attached. Former North Dakota National Guard commander Mike Haugen says searchers found the camera's memory card Wednesday.

Haugen was a longtime friend of Odegaard's, and he helped to look for the card. He says it's been given to federal investigators.

Haugen says the crash probe will take a long time to finish. He says it will include an autopsy and an analysis of the plane's wreckage.

Odegaard was a longtime pilot and airplane rebuilder who owned an aerial spraying business.

Found it here:
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/d ... emory-Card

[51fixer]

An excerpt from here-
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2012/09/b ... e-for.html


NTSB Identification: CEN12LA615
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Friday, September 07, 2012 in Valley City, ND
Aircraft: GOODYEAR F2G, registration: N5577N
Injuries: 1 Fatal.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

On September 7, 2012, about 1755 central daylight time, a Goodyear F2G Corsair, N5577N, was substantially damaged when it impacted terrain during an aerobatic practice routine at the Barnes County Municipal Airport (BAC), Valley City, North Dakota. The pilot was fatally injured. The aircraft was registered to a private individual and operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as an air show practice flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight, which was not operated on a flight plan. The flight originated from BAC prior to the practice routine.

A witness reported that the practice routine proceeded normally. During the final barrel roll, the airplane pitched to about 10 degrees nose up and rolled left until about 10 degrees past inverted, at which point the roll slowed and ultimately stopped. The airplane then pitched down and started to pull through from a vertical nose down attitude. Vapor trails were visible from both wing tips from about 80 degrees to 40 degrees nose down. At this point the airplane was about 100 feet above ground level. The airplane subsequently impacted the ground in about a 10-degree nose down, wings level attitude.

Initial ground impact was located about 500 feet from the approach threshold of runway 31, about 100 feet southwest of the edge of the runway. The debris path was oriented on a southerly bearing and was about 450 feet in length. The airplane was fragmented during the impact sequence and a postimpact fire ensued.

The accident airplane was a restored World War II era fighter airplane. Records indicated that it entered service with the United States Navy in February 1946. It was restored and re-issued an experimental airworthiness certificate for exhibition and air racing purposes in July 2011.

http://registry.faa.gov/N5577N

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 5577N Make/Model: F2G Description: CORSAIR
Date: 09/07/2012 Time: 2310

Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Destroyed

LOCATION
City: VALLEY CITY State: ND Country: US

DESCRIPTION
AIRCRAFT CRASHED WHILE PRACTICING FOR AN AIRSHOW. VALLEY CITY, ND

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 0 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:


OTHER DATA
Activity: Other Phase: Maneuver Operation: OTHER


FAA FSDO: FARGO, ND (GL21) Entry date: 09/10/2012

[jaybird]

I wondered if the GoPro was mounted and recording during the flight. If it did indeed record something, I hope the retrieved card answers some questions for those who need to know it most.

Here's a link to a beautiful view of some laps around Reno with Bob and 74:

http://youtu.be/jm1ImoWNUCo?hd=1

[cwmc]

I don't know what passes for a barrel roll any more but it was a 45 degree off heading for 45 degree pitch maneuver for orientation when I was taught. Sounds as if the nose never got near as high as it would've been if it had been a real barrel roll.
Was it really just a ballistic roll?
Chris...

[Wildchild]

I wondered if the GoPro was mounted and recording during the flight. If it did indeed record something, I hope the retrieved card answers some questions for those who need to know it most.

Here's a link to a beautiful view of some laps around Reno with Bob and 74:

http://youtu.be/jm1ImoWNUCo?hd=1

If the Go Pro was mounted there at the time of the crash, I don't think any human would want to watch that video...

[CAPFlyer]

While watching such a video is probably very disturbing, it is also necessary. The mounting location provides a lot of very important information about the health of the airplane and its engine and the condition of the pilot. It's a mini black box of its own. Much of the NTSB's observations on the Galloping Ghost's fate are being at least confirmed and backed up by the telemetry and what video they were able to recover from the GoPro installed on it, but they're not showing any images off it nor will they post the video anytime soon if ever. If they do, they will be carefully selected and/or edited to only show the pertinent factual information they needed to get from it and not any of the rest because they do respect these guys, whether they were killed in the accident or not, and as a policy have never shown video like that as part of an accident investigation in the last 40+ years since they chose to not name the crew members in accident reports.

[51fixer]

While watching such a video is probably very disturbing, it is also necessary. The mounting location provides a lot of very important information about the health of the airplane and its engine and the condition of the pilot. It's a mini black box of its own. Much of the NTSB's observations on the Galloping Ghost's fate are being at least confirmed and backed up by the telemetry and what video they were able to recover from the GoPro installed on it, but they're not showing any images off it nor will they post the video anytime soon if ever. If they do, they will be carefully selected and/or edited to only show the pertinent factual information they needed to get from it and not any of the rest because they do respect these guys, whether they were killed in the accident or not, and as a policy have never shown video like that as part of an accident investigation in the last 40+ years since they chose to not name the crew members in accident reports.

Were they able to recover info from the memory card of GG?
I didn't think they were able to and only had data as transmitted to and recorded on the ground system.
I thought what they used was video and photos from the ground to correlate to data from the A/C.
If I read the transcripts wrong please point it out. There was a ton of info there and I might have missed it.

[Scotty G]

Were they able to recover info from the memory card of GG?

According to the reports, no data could be retrieved from the camera's SD card on GG.

[CAPFlyer]

Okay, I guess I misread then. I thought they'd gotten some information off the SD cards and were able to use it to confirm some of the gauge readings. May have misunderstood that the information was from the ground telemetry.