IL-2 Flies in US

[The Inspector]

I've heard a SPITFIRE, a HURRICANE, 2 P-51's, and a LANCASTER all in the same piece of air in formation and each installlation of the MERLINs involved had a distinctive tone. And yes, a MUSTANG with gun ports has a sharper whistle to it than a clean wing one does.
Until or if, somewhere FHC does connect with a correct engine, I'll accept the ALLISON as as close as we can get to a Mikulin as far as sounds, because the sounds 'fit' the project. Would you be satisfied and accept on a gutteral level if while watching say,' Rocky' and instead of Stallones voice you heard Pee Wee Hermans voice saying 'YO-Adrienne'? Given the sheet steel, 'put together by blacksmiths' look and design of the Il-2, would you accept something that sounded like three GYPSY Minors all stuck together as the sounds of an attack aircraft meant to scare the willies out of infantry?

[Chappie]

Man I tell ya, Steve Hinton is the guy. The warbird pilot who has flown it all!! Growing up as a kid I wanted to be Steve Hitnon and AJ Foyt.

Chappie

[marine air]

The distinctive sound comes in large part from how the sound waves reverberate through the fuselage and surfaces. Like a musical instrument, it's the shape, size and materials used that determines most it's distinctive sound. Like a drum.
Second, how the exhaust flows makes significant contribution. A few of the P-47's flying have had their exhausts redirected out the waste gate at the engine cowling instead of the through the belly.They sound a lot like a Corsair.
My guess is there wouldn't be very much difference in the sound between the Russian and American engine on the IL-2.

[51fixer]

The distinctive sound comes in large part from how the sound waves reverberate through the fuselage and surfaces. Like a musical instrument, it's the shape, size and materials used that determines most it's distinctive sound. Like a drum.
Second, how the exhaust flows makes significant contribution. A few of the P-47's flying have had their exhausts redirected out the waste gate at the engine cowling instead of the through the belly.They sound a lot like a Corsair.
My guess is there wouldn't be very much difference in the sound between the Russian and American engine on the IL-2.

You make it sound like all V-12s will sound the same.
??????
You haven't heard a Griffon have you?

[JDK]

The distinctive sound comes in large part from how the sound waves reverberate through the fuselage and surfaces. Like a musical instrument, it's the shape, size and materials used that determines most it's distinctive sound. Like a drum.

That's an interesting point, thanks!

Until or if, somewhere FHC does connect with a correct engine, I'll accept the ALLISON as as close as we can get to a Mikulin as far as sounds, because the sounds 'fit' the project.

For those who missed it, the well-informed shepsair stated earlier: "An original Mikulin would be nice and hopefully the one recently recovered and being restored for Vadim will be powered by an original."

So we may well get access to the real deal in due course - which is great.

Would you be satisfied and accept on a gutteral level if while watching say,' Rocky' and instead of Stallones voice you heard Pee Wee Hermans voice saying 'YO-Adrienne'?

Um, I know who you're talking about, but have zero interest.

Perhaps a better example would be the macho, Stallone like growl that the great US General George S Patton ha... Didn't have?

Remember what I said about expectations? (And that's the other crux of the point. 'What you might expect' is remarkably often just wrong.) Remember Stallone's an actor, not a real tough guy.

Most people 'know' what gunfire sounds like and explosions 'look like' from film - and it's also a self-perpetuating exaggeration, so the real thing is relatively underwhelming.

Given the sheet steel, 'put together by blacksmiths' look and design of the Il-2, would you accept something that sounded like three GYPSY Minors all stuck together...

We'd be just as foolish to think an 'over engineered' (relatively speaking) American fighter engine would exactly replicate the sounds of the Russian 'blacksmith' type engine, surely?

...as the sounds of an attack aircraft meant to scare the willies out of infantry?

Now, really, Inspector, you know better than that. It wasn't 'meant to sound' like anything. It was a tool to do a job as effectively as possible, and (unlike the Stuka) sound was no part of that. If they could've made it silent, or with a roar that turned insides to jelly, they've taken it - but neither extreme is the case.

The probability is they'll sound very similar - but similar isn't the same, and conjecture isn't fact.

As Rich has pointed out, the Griffon and the Merlin have very distinct sounds, despite both being similar configuration supercharged (normally short-stub exhausting) V-12s, turning similar type props.

Regards,

[JDK]

Just to clarify the Patton reference:

General George Patton was played to perfection by George C Scott, and most people associate Scott's rough, raspy barritone with the general. So imagine the surprise in finding a newsreel of Patton giving a speech and hearing a high, almost squeaky tenor with an almost British-sounding accent...

From: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... Dissonance - the beginning is actually very germane on expected voice sounds.

Interesting video with Patton speaking in public (not as 'squeaky' as he's remembered, IMHO!) and introduced by Doolittle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLTUrbtC ... _embedded#!

[The Inspector]

The distinctive sound comes in large part from how the sound waves reverberate through the fuselage and surfaces. Like a musical instrument, it's the shape, size and materials used that determines most it's distinctive sound. Like a drum.

That's an interesting point, thanks!

Until or if, somewhere FHC does connect with a correct engine, I'll accept the ALLISON as as close as we can get to a Mikulin as far as sounds, because the sounds 'fit' the project.

For those who missed it, the well-informed shepsair stated earlier: "An original Mikulin would be nice and hopefully the one recently recovered and being restored for Vadim will be powered by an original."

So we may well get access to the real deal in due course - which is great.

Would you be satisfied and accept on a gutteral level if while watching say,' Rocky' and instead of Stallones voice you heard Pee Wee Hermans voice saying 'YO-Adrienne'?

Um, I know who you're talking about, but have zero interest.

Perhaps a better example would be the macho, Stallone like growl that the great US General George S Patton ha... Didn't have?

Remember what I said about expectations? (And that's the other crux of the point. 'What you might expect' is remarkably often just wrong.) Remember Stallone's an actor, not a real tough guy.

Most people 'know' what gunfire sounds like and explosions 'look like' from film - and it's also a self-perpetuating exaggeration, so the real thing is relatively underwhelming.

Given the sheet steel, 'put together by blacksmiths' look and design of the Il-2, would you accept something that sounded like three GYPSY Minors all stuck together...

We'd be just as foolish to think an 'over engineered' (relatively speaking) American fighter engine would exactly replicate the sounds of the Russian 'blacksmith' type engine, surely?

...as the sounds of an attack aircraft meant to scare the willies out of infantry?

Now, really, Inspector, you know better than that. It wasn't 'meant to sound' like anything. It was a tool to do a job as effectively as possible, and (unlike the Stuka) sound was no part of that. If they could've made it silent, or with a roar that turned insides to jelly, they've taken it - but neither extreme is the case.

The probability is they'll sound very similar - but similar isn't the same, and conjecture isn't fact.

As Rich has pointed out, the Griffon and the Merlin have very distinct sounds, despite both being similar configuration supercharged (normally short-stub exhausting) V-12s, turning similar type props.

Regards,

JDK,
Why do you suppose armor makes so much noise? Intimidation, would you as a 19 year old grunt laying in a slit trench in the pre dawn darkness be apprehensive, nervous, and sweaty if the approaching armor sounded like a bunch of battery operated screwdrivers? No, you become apprehensive because of the vibrations in the ground, the heavy thrum of the engines exhaust, the eeking and chirping of the track links, the crushing sounds as the vehicle rolls over tree trunks or snaps trees while advancing or the screams of those in front being run over by 60 tons of 'we don't care' steel.
Isn't intimidation why sirens were installed on STUKAS? No one would show up to Surfers Paradise if all F-1 cars sounded like economy cars with big mufflers, NHRA drag racing wouldn't attrach flies if a T/F dragster sounded like your aunts hatchback econobox while running 320 M.P.H.
Engine noises and airframe sounds are a substantial part of the overall intimidation factors, isn't that why the Japanese called the F4U 'Whistling Death' and not 'Whistling bushes' (L.A. joke in there). If I'm flying against several hundred guys armed with rifles surrounded by armor in a low level situation. I'd want all the scary,bad a$$ noises my airplane could make.

[k5083]

Armor sounds like it's big and powerful because it's big and powerful. Can you document any case where armor was purposely made to sound bigger and more powerful than it was?

Sirens were only occasionally installed on Stukas, but that is your one valid example.

The Japanese did not call the Corsair "whistling death". American journalists made that up.

I guess you're right about the race cars, and Harley-Davidson actually tried to get trademark protection on its carefully tuned engine sound. But those are toys, not weapons.

August

[bombadier29]

Why do you suppose armor makes so much noise? Intimidation, would you as a 19 year old grunt laying in a slit trench in the pre dawn darkness be apprehensive, nervous, and sweaty if the approaching armor sounded like a bunch of battery operated screwdrivers? No, you become apprehensive because of the vibrations in the ground, the heavy thrum of the engines exhaust, the eeking and chirping of the track links, the crushing sounds as the vehicle rolls over tree trunks or snaps trees while advancing or the screams of those in front being run over by 60 tons of 'we don't care' steel.

I agree that approaching armor does have a disconcerting sound and it can indeed be horrifying to know that it is coming your way. But to say that it was engineered that way is just idiotic. Armor makes that noise as a by product of their construction and means of operation. While I'm sure the designer's of the first tank probably thought , "This noise is going to scare the crap out of some poor soldier", I doubt that they would have passed up the chance to make them as stealthy as possible. If you've had the opportunity to get near a modern piece of armor, you'd no doubt notice that they still haven't been able to master that part of construction. If anything, they are louder due to the turbine engines and high speed! But that isn't what is intimidating. It's the rounds coming out of the cannon that takes care of that!

[Sasquatch]

Great shots Spook!

And I sure enjoyed your videos, Jason.

Well-done to da bodt a ya's (Chicagoese with a shot of south side Irish).

I wanna be like Steve Hinton when I grow up

--Tom

[JDK]

Inspector, I refer you to my Right Hon friend August.

In the case for the Beaufighter being called 'Whispering Death' (a parallel to the completely mythical 'Whistling Death' claim as mentioned - and dismissed - above) of the Corsair, a colleague and I were able to trace it back to the original article, journalist and event, thanks to input from a good internet friend on a forum. The Japanese had nothing to do with it, and it had everything to do with Allied propaganda hyperbole and someone being 'wound-up' in a Squadron mess.

Just to be clear, as I've said, the difference is (probably) minor and while I hope this discussion is interesting (I've found it so) it's very definitely focussing on a very peripheral element in what's a great restoration of an under-rated aircraft of huge import in W.W.II. That's what's important.

Additionally, the restoration of another Il-2 with (we hope) an authentic engine is also great news.

Regards,

[Chappie]

I wanna be like Steve Hinton when I grow up
--Tom

Growing up reading Air Classics, I did to.

By the way everybody, isn't it great that we have an airworthy IL-2?

Chappie

[JDK]

By the way everybody, isn't it great that we have an airworthy IL-2?

Yes, indeed.

[The Inspector]

Inspector, I refer you to my Right Hon friend August.

In the case for the Beaufighter being called 'Whispering Death' (a parallel to the completely mythical 'Whistling Death' claim as mentioned - and dismissed - above) of the Corsair, a colleague and I were able to trace it back to the original article, journalist and event, thanks to input from a good internet friend on a forum. The Japanese had nothing to do with it, and it had everything to do with Allied propaganda hyperbole and someone being 'wound-up' in a Squadron mess.

Just to be clear, as I've said, the difference is (probably) minor and while I hope this discussion is interesting (I've found it so) it's very definitely focussing on a very peripheral element in what's a great restoration of an under-rated aircraft of huge import in W.W.II. That's what's important.

Additionally, the restoration of another Il-2 with (we hope) an authentic engine is also great news.

Regards,

JDK,
Thank you, always glad to get new and correct information on any subject. Further, I really enjoy exchanges with you as you make me stretch my gray matter.

[shepsair]

Few pics of the recovery

http://englishrussia.com/2012/06/22/war ... ore-103588

And a few girls at the bottom but not the reason for going to this site!

This Il-2 had 3-4 20/37mm cannon holes as well as numerous 7.62mm. The German Flak did not bring her down and nor did the Bf109's of JG5. Flew 60miles back to base and with no generator, flaps or undercarriage undertook a fast landing on the frozen lake. The attacking force of 16 Il-2's - 8 were lost!

regards

Mark