C-47 flying over the Normandy beaches in 15 mins

CAPFlyer · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:55 pm

Looks like you had a great vacation there Taigh!

Taigh Ramey wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up. You sure seem to be the go to guy for glider stuff. Do you think we will see a CG-4A fly sometime soon?

The Greatest Generation guys are working away at one to tow behind their airplane(s). Fuselage looked to be coming along nicely earlier this year when I last visited. Maybe Karen or one of the other GGA guys can post more?

TAdan · **Posted:** Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:45 pm

Thanks for sharing your vacation with us Taigh! That is one of the best photo tours of Normandy that I've seen.

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:47 am

Knew Taigh would do us proud. A couple of thoughts...

Quote:

This one was dated 1939

Which is very odd as the Germans weren't in France at all until May 1940, and later still in Normandy.

So I'd guess that that piece of metal was either re-used German from the 'Siegfried line' (Westwall), or re- used French from the Maginot line (or similar - the Pointe guns were ex-French apparently) or, much less likely, a re-used coastal defence item.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Line
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line

Naturally Taigh's focussed on the American involvement, of D Day, but it was, of course, a multi-national campaign; and it's name isn't even static, with it known as 'Jour J' in France... I checked (as I was curious) some rough numbers; of the Allied forces, overall, the 2nd Army contingent consisted of 83,115 troops (61,715 of them British), and In total, the US First Army contingent totalled approximately 73,000 men, including 15,600 from the airborne divisions. Plus the multi-national Naval and air arms, and very much not least - the French.

As to what 'bombed' Pointe du Hoc, I don't know, but it certainly looks like A-20s (4 x 500lbs) and two destroyers (one US, one British). Would they have been shelled by battleships? Given the times, probably not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Prein ... du_Hoe.jpg

Regards,

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:54 am

That 1939 armour again. From the (uncited) Wiki page referred to above for the Westwall:

Quote:

Adolf Hitler planned the line from 1936 and had it built between 1938 and 1940.
...
German industry could not deliver as many steel armour plates as were needed for the mounting of weapons in the bunkers. The armour-plated sections were designed to include the embrasures and their shutters ... Germany depended on other countries to provide the alloys required in producing armoured plates (mostly nickel and molybdenum), so either the armour plates were left out or they were produced with low-quality replacement materials.
...
When the campaign finished, transportable weapons were removed from the Siegfried Line and used in other places.[citation needed]...

Interesting!

gliderman1 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:22 am

Do you think we will see a CG-4A fly sometime soon?

Taigh, define soon ...... Or, when will yours be ready to fly? :wink:

Over the past years, including the Texas group which took over the Pappas attempt, there have been at least four intentions to fly, all beginning with a lot of drum beating. Then, either the drumsticks break or the drum head splits, stopping the project. The Pappas project was to fly what looked like a CG-4A on the outside, but internally not necessarily authentic. The farthest that project got was collecting framework and repairing and painting the cockpit tubing. I have no idea if even a million $$ would be enough, but it will not happen until a benefactor appears.

I recall someone said or thought the Yanks project would fly but I have not heard that for a couple years. If one does fly, and I am around, and the FAA allows passengers, I would like to ride.

Ztex · **Posted:** Mon Aug 06, 2012 4:40 pm

Wonderful report Taigh.
Thanks for taking the time to post the photos!

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:41 pm

Good stuff James. I figured the ports were made in Germany in mass and sent out as needed. Well done finding more details.

That shot of the A-20's bombing Point du Hoc is one I have seen for a long time but never read the caption or put two and two together. I need to pay closer attention. Thanks once again for the education James.

TriangleP wrote:

For my 1000th post, I needed something compelling to make me post

When I posted the photos of the airman's head stones I had hoped that maybe someone might have information about them. Thanks for posting that. There is a story for each and every one of those markers. Some in print and some that can't be told.

WIX sure is a great resource.

gliderman1 wrote:

Do you think we will see a CG-4A fly sometime soon?

Taigh, define soon ...... Or, when will yours be ready to fly?

I would love to help with a project like that. I would be better suited for the C-47 side of the tow rope as my wood working skills need a lot of improvement before I could work on a CG-4A. I am more than willing to bone up on those skills though.

I have some great parts that I have been hoarding for a C-47 project like a full set of para racks and controls, radio racks and radios and lots of interior furnishings. Just itching to get a hold of a good airframe...someday...

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:30 am

Taigh Ramey wrote:

Good stuff James. I figured the ports were made in Germany in mass and sent out as needed. Well done finding more details.

That shot of the A-20's bombing Point du Hoc is one I have seen for a long time but never read the caption or put two and two together. I need to pay closer attention. Thanks once again for the education James.

Well, it was your lead to ask some of the questions, and as ever the answers proved interesting, I think!

Taigh Ramey wrote:

WIX sure is a great resource..

Ab-so-lu-te-ly. :wink:

Regards,

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7856

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

Taigh--

The SCR-717C "mock up" on the belly of the C-47 in the Museum is only about 1/3 the correct size. It is a terrible representation as a true example looks more like a bloated belly turret. The reason it is there is because the actual ARGONIA was a serial leader which was equipped with 717C which interfaced with BUPS on the ground. Also 717C, in its alternate mode, could paint a crude terrain picture differentiating between water and land. Great over coasts and rivers but worthless over solid ground, desert, or ocean. The ASW (717B) variant could see ships and conning towers....

The real ARGONIA was lost or salvaged...doesn't exist anymore. The plane in the Museum was actually IN the 439th TCG formation led by ARGONIA on D-Day.

BTW--the parachute on the church steeple is on the wrong corner. John Steele landed on the steeple to the left of the clock. The local Chamber of Commerce decided this steeple made for a better photo.....

Thank you Mark for the early LIFE cemetery pictures....

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7856

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

Mark--

Your black and white of the church needs some orientation. There is a clock on BOTH sides of the tower. This is the BACK of the church. The now famous parachute is presently hanging from the corner of the tower NOT shown in the photo. The wall shown is on the down street side--not the Museum side. So Steele actually landed on the steeple on the extreme right of the photo--which is the LEFT FRONT of the church. Another 505 trooper, Ken Russell, landed on the roof shown and slid down to the ground.

Taigh's color pic was taken on the Museum side of the church--if you walked around to the right you would have your b/w view. Again--Steele actually landed on the steeple NOT shown in the color photo. There is a famous wartime photo of a paratrooper charging the side door of the church in the color pic. Directly behind the photographer is the entrance to the Airborne Museum.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7856

Pathfinder · **Joined:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:35 pm **Posts:** 587

The poster wall is still there. This is the side of the square opposite the Museum. If you could look down the block to the right in your b/w photo you would be looking down toward the famous Stop Bar.

This is Jim Dietz' SEIZE THE DAY showing the historically accurate placement of the parachute. We are now on the side of the square not represented in the b/w or Taigh's photo.

The action in this picture is taking place at the corner of the square in front of what was until recently the Millinery Shop--operated by Phillipe Jutras who was the founder of the Airborne Museum...he was from Maine and landed on Utah Beach. The ammo cart is right in front of the Stop Bar. The American truck is placed where the current monument is located on the square and the German Kubelwagon is blocking a view toward where the entrance to the Museum is located--where Taigh took his photo.

Note the position of the chute...to the left of the clock. Presently hanging on the steeple on the right. Your poster wall is on the left and if the pointing soldier dropped his arm a few degrees he'd be pointing at right end of the poster wall in your b/w pic.

Edit: I think I missed your point....the building with the posters is gone...but the wall at street level below the posters is still present. Not a frequently toured street--even google maps doesn't go street level on that corner but they do the other three sides. Here is an aerial shot from a French website. I helped this fellow with some historical details back about '04.

This shot shows that side of the church (to the left)...that out building is gone...a large black SUV is parked where it used to stand.

http://www.dday04.com/photo-869.php

Taigh Ramey · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:33 am

Those are great shots. Thanks for posting them. I am also amazed that there was that much equipment left that long after the battle.

Good information on the SCR-717 Pathfinder. Are there any C-47's with the gear or the proper antenna housing installed? Do any exist?

Here is a cropped shot of the church I took from the air showing the opposite side

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C-47 flying over the Normandy beaches in 15 mins

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