Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Mon Jun 30, 2025 2:21 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:43 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:42 pm
Posts: 6884
Location: The Goldfields, Victoria, Australia
RMAllnutt wrote:
Part of the reason the Royal Navy carriers had lower ceilings in the hangar deck was due to the heavily armoured flight deck, (which meant that none of these carriers were sunk or due to dive bombing, or kamikaze attacks, unlike US Carriers, which suffered greatly in those cases). They couldn't carry nearly as many aircraft though, which was a significant problem at times. Also, the Spitfire had folding wing tips as well as the main wing fold, so they could fit more easily in the carrier.

Dave Homewood wrote:
Yes I have talked with several Kiwis and Brits who were aboard fleet carriers which were hit by Kamikazes. Only one case of the stories I've heard did the ship list badly, etc but they soon regained control. In the other cases they said that the crews simply swept the Japanese mess off the deck, filled the slight dent with concrete to level it out again, and within an hour they were operating again. A huge advantage having the steel decks. I don't know why the US Navy went that way in WWII.

The RN armoured-deck carrier story is an interesting one. While all of the above is true, it's not often realised that several of the armoured carriers couldn't be refitted post-war because the ships were actually warped out of true, and as anyone knows whose dealt with an armoured structure, rebuilding them straight was just unviable.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_f ... r_analysis

Classic case of trade-offs, and ultimately an example of Napolion's 'big battalions' concept - the USN could build, refit and supply carriers at a rate the British Empire couldn't. In the end, it didn't matter whether the USN had armoured carriers or not - it was the supply of new and rebuilt materiel that mattered. In the short term, the RN's armoured carriers stayed in the battle and the war, and 'held the line', which was crucial then. The RN couldn't have afforded not to have had armoured carriers - the loss of the earlier, unarmoured carriers before the US entry to the war, and HMS Eagle soon after, were sore holes in the RN's capability.

And... a double-fold wing (such as the Seafire's) is a poorer engineering and performance solution to the lighter, simpler single fold. Of course Grumman's famous 'eraser & paperclip' fold seems to me the most neat solution.

http://heroicrelics.org/info/grumman-pa ... rclip.html

Regards,

_________________
James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:07 pm 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:52 am
Posts: 1949
Location: Virginia, USA
51fixer wrote:
F2G-1 PILOT MANUAL PAGE-
Image
Paragraph on lower L/H column references lack of hyd wing fold on F2G-1.
Only other difference I remember is -1 had a 14' dia prop and -2 Carrier version specifies 13' 7" dia prop.


I have that manual too... it's fascinating! I wasn't disputing the F2G-1's had the wingfold system deleted, just the FG's.

Cheers,
Richard

_________________
Richard Mallory Allnutt - Photography - http://www.rmallnutt.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:41 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:11 pm
Posts: 3160
Location: MQS- Coatesville, PA
RMAllnutt wrote:
51fixer wrote:
F2G-1 PILOT MANUAL PAGE-
Image
Paragraph on lower L/H column references lack of hyd wing fold on F2G-1.
Only other difference I remember is -1 had a 14' dia prop and -2 Carrier version specifies 13' 7" dia prop.


I have that manual too... it's fascinating! I wasn't disputing the F2G-1's had the wingfold system deleted, just the FG's.

Cheers,
Richard

It was the only document that mentions a lack of that system in any of the Corsairs that I know of.
All of the others left the factory with them. It wouldn't make sense to remove any of it in the field as there are inter connected components to lock the wings down.
It isn't a one piece system but has valves, actuators, plungers, pins and a mechanical lock on the down lock pin that is hydraulically driven.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 483
F4U Folks:

Interesting subject!!

Does anyone know if the wings can also be folded manually on a F4U-5N aircraft? or if they are hydraulic operated only??

Tks in advance


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:45 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm
Posts: 7826
.

_________________
Zero Surprise!!...


Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 483
Mark:

Interesting photograph of an F4U taking off with a poss left wing folding! What is the story of this F4U?? Did the pilot make it?? How did it happen??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:00 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:11 pm
Posts: 3160
Location: MQS- Coatesville, PA
zorro7 wrote:
F4U Folks:

Interesting subject!!

Does anyone know if the wings can also be folded manually on a F4U-5N aircraft? or if they are hydraulic operated only??

Tks in advance

Probably 3 original ways to power hyd system- engine driven pump, hand pump and electric driven pump. If the system in the A/C is intact and the hyd res serviced the hand pump should move the wings.
I would use a fork lift with some padding to back up the system in case it doesn't work properly or a seal fails. A falling wing is pretty dangerous.
Pretty much followndirections in the manuals. If you don't have a manualnthen don't try it.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 483
51 Fixer!

Nice data Tks!! We'll keep this info/data handy when the time comes to fold the second wing of FAH 609! Tks


Last edited by zorro7 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:40 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm
Posts: 7826
.

_________________
Zero Surprise!!...


Last edited by Mark Allen M on Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:07 am 
Offline
2000+ Post Club
2000+ Post Club

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm
Posts: 2635
Mark Allen M wrote:
zorro7 wrote:
Mark:

Interesting photograph of an F4U taking off with a poss left wing folding! What is the story of this F4U?? Did the pilot make it?? How did it happen??


Caption only states the pilot didn't make it out, nothing else :(


Not sure that the wing fold failed. I think I remember reading about an incident when the CAT shot was premature before the aircraft had the wings fully extended and locked.

_________________
45-47=-2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 483
Mike:

The second version is what prob happened! Sorry to hear about that young pilot did not make it. Did the Navy take landing & take off shots all the time??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:13 pm
Posts: 149
Location: "Out Californee Way"
"All operations with which I was involved were land-based ones where we never folded the wings. In two plus years of flying the Corsair I never once folded the wings, nor did any of my fellow pilots."

Wallace B. "Tommy" Thomson, VMF-211

From "Bent Wings - F4U Corsair Action and Accidents" by Fred Blechman. An enjoyable read made up of the recollections of 10 pilots involving 43 "incidents." Some involve combat, others are peacetime. You can pick up a copy on Amazon.

Thomson goes on to tell about how, as operations officer, he had to test fly a Corsair that had an outer wing panel replaced by mechanics from another squadron who had since rotated stateside. He discussed the steps he went through to check that the wing was locked. Then as he is heading down the runway, just about ready to rotate, the wing unlocks and starts slapping back and forth. He manages to miss a bunch of RNZAF P-40s at the other end of the runway loaded with thermite bombs and goes off into the swamp without anyone getting hurt. The Corsair is back flying in a few days.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AG pilot, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], The Ripper and 68 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group