Warbird Information Exchange

Hell yeah, thats what I'm talking about

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A&P/I.A., A.A.S./Aviation Maintenance technology
Warbird salvage/recovery
One day I'll get that P-40!

Heck yes!!!

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S.

The F-4A is still carrying that same paint - it hasn't been touched, except for a few bondo patches. That's one good reason its in such horrific condition. There is no saving that aircraft, its beyond reasonable restoration. At some poiont, they'll have to push it over the side . Hopefully there will still be a Navy or Marine Phantom in AMARG that could take its place.

The issues with the aircraft on deck go beyond the paint. As anyone who has worked on a carrier knows, salt air is a demon. It doesn't take long at all for it to wreak havoc. Slapping new paint on some of them would make them look presentable for a little while, then the deteroration will start showing through again. It is ismply not an environment condusive to aircraft preservation.

The hangar deck is stuffed full of a snack bar, store, theater, 4 airplanes, and a bunch of exhibits. There is not room for any of the birds from above.

Like I said in my original post, Pensacola (who owns the aircraft, I presume) ought to get the rare ones out of there. The WWII birds, the Banshee, Cougar, and A-4B should find new homes before they are too far gone. The rest are not really rare (at least for now), so replacements for most could be found when they finally fall apart.

I haven't been on another display carrier, so don't know how this measures up against them. Intrepid, Midway, Hornet ... They've got to have the same corrosion issues, how do they deal with it? Or are they getting to be in the same condition?

Intrepid does not have it as bad due to the fact that they are more on a freshwater river versus actual ocean water.

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S.

OK, I can't stand it any more. I work at Battleship Park in
Mobile, AL. ALL the ship museums face the same problems.
We are fortunate that we do have a hangar to house most
of our aircraft.

It all comes down to two things; dollars and labor. I don't
know the Lextington's funding situation. I did read that USS
Texas got some money from the state. In our case, since
we are a state agency, people assume we receive funding.
Not so! We don't get money from Uncle Sam either. We are
solely dependant on ticket sales, the gift shop, and anything
someone may donate.

After Hurricane Katrina and before I went to work here I
made an appeal on WIX for folks to donate money to help
recover. The Development Office told me that they did
receive some checks, but none referenced WIX. Apparantly
not one single person here thought we were worthy of a
donation. BTW, we're still waiting on FEMA money. And
we have four planes yet to be repaired.

We now have in place a volunteer program with the USN
in P'cola. With their help we have made great strides
recovering. MUCH remains to be done.

Don't just complain. Get out your check books. Go
there and volunteer to help. Get involved. YOU can
make a difference! All the museum ships all around the
country need your help. Patriots Point had to borrow
millions to keep USS Laffey from sinking. And we all
know the sad tale of USS Olympia.

I spoke with a very nice family from CA over the holidays
and told them of the funding situation. They were astonished.
The dad took out his wallet and dropped $100.00 in one
of the donation boxes. We all need more folks like that.

I agree with you on most of your points. Funding is a critical issue, and most folks, unfortunately, talk big and deliver small. In addition, I am guessing that most of the revenue brought in goes to the operation of the ship - not to restoration of the ship or aircraft. If I was to write them a thousand dollar check, how much of it would go towards the issue I have brought up here? Not much, if any.

The issue about the rare aircraft isn't about funding, however. Unless the ship has environmentally controlled spaces to store the rare ones in, corrosion and deterioration IS GOING TO HAPPEN - you can't stop the salt air. Those specific airplanes, in my opinion, shouldn't be located there.

The others ARE primarily about funding. They should be maintained is as good a condition as possible. Paint applied should be as accurate as possible. If they're going to go to the time and expense of repainting an aircraft, they should know how to paint it - if they don't, there are plenty of resources to find out. Corrosion should not be 'fixed' by application of a blob of bondo and some brushed on house paint.

Sooner or later, the aircraft located there will be beyond repair no matter how much care is given. The end is inevitable - it is a simple equation, salt air vs. metal. The more care they receive, the longer they will last. Some of them might be replacable, others cannot be replaced. I think the ones that cannot be replaced need to be moved to a new home.

I am a big Phantom Phan. Seeing 145315 in its current condition is very upsetting. There simply aren't many F-4As around.

Hmm... A fair point, but there are other options too.
How many Lake Michigan Wildcats and SBDs are STILL in storage at P-Cola? Seems to me auctioning/selling off some of these SURPLUS birds would raise a fair amount of $$$ to help restore/preserve the Navy aircraft on display around the country....

The last time I was in Bldg 649 there were two Lake Birds.
The rest are on indefinite loan to museums around the
country. You will not see them auctioned because of the
"perpetual liability" discussed many times on WIX.

More to the point, I see how that could generate cash
for NNAM. I fail to see how it would benefit museum ships
like LEX which is what the thread is about. Am I missing
something?

I looked over my list and they have farmed out more of the Lake Michigan birds then I thought- All on loan to various museums. I still show SBD-036626, SBD-5s 36175 and 36177 along with F4F-3 11824 and FM-2 550404 as in storage at P-Cola. Now these may have been loaned out too (anyone have updates?) or sadly may have been scrapped after they had been stripped of useful parts.
Sale of these aircraft or ones they have on loan are an option for NMNA and NHC fund raising.

My point is there are fundraising options availible to the Navy alphabet groups beyond asking for donations... What if they charged for recovery permits for the remaining Lake Michigan birds and all of the ones in Lake Washington?

I don't buy the perpetual liability excuse, if it were a real issue groups like the Legend Flyers (or whatever the group selling 262 replica call themselves) Tri State Aviation, Aero Trader, Vulture's Row and others would not exist.... How can the Navy be more liable for selling an unrestored aircraft than these groups that restore and sell flyers?

I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think that when Pensacola loans out aircraft for museums, such as the Lexington, resposibility for the care and maintenance falls soley on the museum. The Navy does not provide any funds for the aircraft upkeep or museum operations. As far as the lake recoveries, I think that resoration by the museum is part of the deal, but Pensacola still owns the aircraft.

I also believe that if Pensacola believes the museum is not living up to its end of the loan terms (such as letting the aircraft deteriorate), Pensacola has the right to pull the aircraft and place them elsewhere. (I am not aware that this has actually been done anywhere.)

(If I am wrong about any of this, corrections are welcome)

I think for the Cobra they were trying to go for this:



Of course, they have a US Army "F" on display and the picture above is of a USMC Whiskey. But while the shades are definitely off the combination of tan and blue-gray does have historical precedent.

Good Grief

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S.

My family and I enjoyed the ship. I'm sure the VOLUNTEERS that do most of the upkeep work are doing the best they can with the resources they have available.

My point is: If YOU don't like how something is being done, then YOU should write the check, scrape the paint, etc. Otherwise Mod Edit.

Mod Edit

Restoring them is one thing.., but why go through the effort of restoring it for historical purposes to paint it like a pinata?

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S.

In reference to the Cobra photo above, yes, that might be what they were trying for. I took pictures, in person, of several of those Marine Cobras, which were based at Camp Pendleton, and carried those temporary schemes for a very short time during and immediately after the First Gulf War. The grey has no blue in it, it is the neutral grey that the birds carried prior to the war, supplemented by the sand overspray. That could have been the museum's target, but they missed - it is painted a really bright medium blue.

hahnel - you really should read what this is about before flying off the handle. I can criticize the condition of the aircraft, and can criticize how they are painted, without making personal attacks on the volunteers. Just because the work was done by a volunteer doesn't mean it was done correctly. Those airplanes don't belong to the volunteers. They don't even belong to the museum. They belong to the Navy, which in a roundabout way means they belong to each of us - the taxpayers who paid for them. I am disappointed by the condition of the aircraft, and I think some of them should be removed to better locations. Am I not allowed to voice that opinion?

Your comment is unwarranted, Mod Edit