A Happy 108th Anniversary of why we're all on this forum

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:48 am

All credit to the Wrights up to 1903.

As to the question, someone else would've got there. It wasn't as close as Ohan and Whittle, but there is no doubt that the sheer number of people trying would've hit on the answers in due course.

As Steve's just said; "the Wright's biggest advantage was their methodical, scientific approach", and that, not the 'first flight'* which proved the technology rather than the aircraft that we should acknowledge.

Baldeagle wrote:

Then the stubbornness and drive that helped them succeed held them back from accepting new ideas, and the influence of their litigious father let them to the legal battles that damaged their reputation.

Everything Baldeagle's said, x2.

But we should also recognise it was, to a great extent, down to the Wrights that took America from their leading the world in 1903 and when they demonstrated their machines in Europe, to a crippled aero industry and dependence on the French for aircraft in the eventual entry into the Great War by 1917.

It's often forgotten that while we know about the Wrights now, at the time they just kept mum for some time, and then got in a lot of other people's way with their ridiculous litigation. (Like Lennon & McCartney, much of the later work sucked.

)

EDIT - Or not - see Baldeagle's correction.
* We tend to forget that the first flight on that day resulted in a crash landing, normally a disbarment for being regarded as a 'successful controlled' flight, and that at that period all the Wright's flights used - and required - a weight-catapult assisted take-off, so hardly an unassisted flight. Nitpicky, but real history's a bit more complex than the 'skool textbook' version.

Regards,

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:59 am

If you'd like a pilot's eye view from a Wright aircraft, this is a great, period film:

http://www.europafilmtreasures.eu/PY/32 ... machine%27
Or:
http://www.europafilmtreasures.eu/fiche ... htm?ID=322

Quote:

Wilbur Wright und seine Flugmaschine

Wilbur Wright and his Flying Machine
Year: 1909

This flight demonstration of American aviation pioneer Wilbur Wright was of a special historic nature: it involved images from the first camera aboard a plane! The two-seater plane with Wilbur Wright at the helm did a lap before an audience of photographers, army men and noteworthy moustached men and just avoided the cameraman on the ground. Then the plane started up again, followed a launching pad and took off: the camera was fixed for the first time on the ground that gave way…and the emotion was there, so great you could almost touch it! The image was as unstable as the cabin of the plane flying at low altitude, flying over the countryside and gradually approaching a town.
Director: Anonymous
Nationality: French
Length: 3' 28"
Genre: documentary
Sound: silent with soundtrack
Original elements: tinted
Producer: Société Générale des Cinématographes Eclipse
Composer: Eric Le Guen
Original language: German

The images of this film were filmed in Italy on the 24th April 1909 by French production company Eclipse. Even if its origins could be found in England in 1898, the Société Générale des Cinématographes Eclipse was officially created in Paris on the 30th August 1906 and quickly became one of France's four main production companies. After these hours of glory it went into decline, slipping away little by little in the 1920's.
...
In 1908 at the invitation of the Compagnie Générale de Navigation Aérienne, Wilbur transported a "Model A" aeroplane to France and flew it in Le Mans from August. “In the past few years the press had talked about mysterious aviation trials attempted by the Wrigt brothers in America. But as these tests were witnessed by very few peopled, we received the news with some scepticism, and the word "bluff" had even been pronounced. The experiments that Wilbur Wright is carrying out in France at the moment victoriously responded to this accusation.” (Le petit journal illustré of the 30th August 1908). The different demonstrations were given to the cheers of a public that included Louis Blériot, who crossed the Channel by plane one year later.

After other demonstrations in Italy where the film was made, the Wright brothers returned to America in 1909.

In memory of these two pioneers, the Disney studios called the two albatrosses from The Adventures of Bernard and Bianca cartoon Wilbur and Orville.

Chappie · **Joined:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 am **Posts:** 987

I always joke to my wife that if it had not been for the Wright Brothers I would not be interested in anything! I live about 5 hours from Kitty Hawk and remember my grandparents taking me there as a kid. It was cool, but don't really think I 'got it' as a kid. My wife and I went in 2007 and as we went to each marker for each of the four flights I would just look around and think to myself 'this is where it happened'. We then climbed the hill to the monument and looked out towards the sea and imagined what it looked like a century ago- just sand and ocean.

That evening we had dinner and beer at the Black Pelican which is located on the site of the Kitty Hawk Life Saving Station where the Wrights sent the message, via Western Union, to the world that they had indeed flown.

James K- Thanks for the link. Great videos. It was hard being an aviator back then and I'm sure it was hard being an avaition photographer too!

Chappie

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:12 am

Chappie wrote:

James K- Thanks for the link. Great videos. It was hard being an aviator back then and I'm sure it was hard being an avaition photographer too!

Pleasure. It was shared with me, so just passing it on!

There's one cut where I wonder if it was due to the cameramen being bowled over by the slipstream or the aircraft... :shock:

Baldeagle · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:22 pm

JDK wrote:

* We tend to forget that the first flight on that day resulted in a crash landing, normally a disbarment for being regarded as a 'successful controlled' flight, and that at that period all the Wright's flights used - and required - a weight-catapult assisted take-off, so hardly an unassisted flight. Nitpicky, but real history's a bit more complex than the 'skool textbook' version.

James, two minor but important corrections-- I think you're referring to the Wrights first attempt on December 14 that resulted in some significant damage. None of the December 17 flights did, until the Flyer was blown over by the wind after the 4th flight. Also, they didn't use a weight catapult assist at Kitty Hawk, that was later when they began experimenting back at Dayton, so the first flights were indeed unassisted.

-

DaveG · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:44 pm

JDK wrote:

(Like Lennon & McCartney, much of the later work sucked.

)

I was at Kitty Hawk 8 years ago for the 100th year anniversary and saw the attempted take-off re-enactment in the pouring, cold rain. Although it didn't leave the ground, it was awesome to be there among thousands of other nutjobs who felt compelled to be there.

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:00 pm

Thanks for the corrections, Baldeagle, :shock:

I shall hand back the full credit to Orville & Wilbur! :lol:

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:06 am

Quote:

I was at Kitty Hawk 8 years ago for the 100th year anniversary and saw the attempted take-off re-enactment in the pouring, cold rain. Although it didn't leave the ground, it was awesome to be there among thousands of other nutjobs who felt compelled to be there.

I watched it live on TV. I think the fact that even with all the modern effort to recreate the flight they still did a belly-flop into the mud is just a testiment to how big the Wrights' accomplishment really was (although of course the weather had a lot to do with it..I understand on the day of the reenactment there was almost no wind, and the Flyer needed a significant bit of headwind to launch.

SN

barnbstormer · **Posted:** Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:47 am

RE: "It's often forgotten that while we know about the Wrights now, at the time they just kept mum for some time, and then got in a lot of other people's way with their ridiculous litigation."

Not so "ridiculous," As the Wrights wished to manufacture and sell planes, and continue development and experimentation, this required considerable funds and investors. Their patent rights WERE upheld by the courts, and infringement HAD to be dealt with. No small accomplishment that the most wealthy and powerful businessmen on Wall Street "invested in" and became board members of The Wright Company on incorpration in New York.

From 1909 (announcing the incorporation):

"It is in the full confidence that the Wrights have prior patents covering all forms of aeroplanes that these gentlemen (Wall street Tycoons, Vanderbilt, Belmont, Alger, Collier and others) have gone into the Wright company. The patent that counts in an aeroplane isn't the motor, it's the means of maintaining the fore and aft balance, and we are fully assured that the United States courts will decide that the basic patent lies with the Wright brothers. We believe that everybody else is infringing, everybody."
"The purpose which inspired these gentlemen when they undertook to form the Wright company," said Mr. Nicoll, "was to aid the Wrights in the commercial introduction of their invention, to help them in perfecting their machines further and to supply the means for the protection of their patents to the fullest extent."

And according to any standards of business success, it should be noted that the company was valued (by independent accounting auditors) at more than 400% of its initial capitalization, only six years later, and THAT was AFTER the Wrights had already received several hundred thousand dollars out of it, during the years of operation, a portion of which, where patent royalties. According to the seven page original incorporation Document, The Wall street Tycoons invested/incorporated on the BASIS of the estimated dollar value of the TWO Wright patents, AND the right to sue infringers. When the company was sold, one of the main factors was the estimated dollar value, and transfer of the rights to five patents.

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