B-24 question

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:05 pm

What about the 2 B-24's that went into Lake Ontario? :drink3:

andyman64 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:32 pm

wow a martin mariner any of them left surviving any where?

JohnB · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:06 pm

andyman64 wrote:

wow a martin mariner any of them left surviving any where?

Yes, the sole display Mariner is at Pima.

There is a B-24 on the tundra near Resolute bay, Canada.

Forum contributor Stephen Wilkinson saw it and wrote about it in the early 70s. I'd imagine it's still there.

Someone send him a PM for details.

The Inspector · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:40 pm

There WAS an intact Mariner (missing only one wingtip float torn off in the capsizing) laying upside down on the bottom of Lake Washington a few yards off the Boeing Renton Plants ramp (didja know there is still a seaplane ramp @ Rentons Boeing plant?). It sank during a storm in the late 40's and was so intact that there were remains of crew meals in closed ovens in the the galley. The story got into the Seattle papers and every clown within 10,000 square miles who had a dive tank was off to see the elephant. Keep in mind this was the ONLY complete straight boat PBM MARINER known to exist, the one @ Pima is an amphibian model.

A group of rocket scientists attempted to pull the nose turret off with a boat and cable. The Navy stepped in and said 'it's ours, we'll do the recovery, we're the professionals at this' (this after dithering for over a year about the airplane). And in a classic example of stupid murdering good planning in it's sleep, they attempted to raise the airplane with straps and flotation bags around the inboard sections of the wings, one teeny little item they forgot to do........since it had been down there for around 35 years with the cabin doors wide open was to pump SEVERAL TONS of lakebottom silt out of the fuselage--off came the wings and the now completely trashed wreckage was allowed to settle back on the bottom of the lake to continue it's eternal sleep:shock:

NICE WORK !! How professional of you there Captain John Neversweat :supz:

They need a flag, but how do you accurately depict ignorance rampant on a field of stupidity?

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:44 pm

And they are what some would call proffessionals! :drink3:

wingman1 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:12 pm

The Inspector wrote:

:

NICE WORK !! How professional of you there Captain John Neversweat :supz:

They need a flag, but how do you accurately depict ignorance rampant on a field of stupidity?

Captain John Neversweat,............ "Here's Your Sign!" :axe:

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:20 pm

Quote:

B-24 question

"It's the box the B-17 came in, but that's not important right now..."

Sorry.

More seriously:

Travisd80elcam wrote:

And isn't there a few in Papua New Guinea? I've seen on PacificWrecks where there are a few that could also be a good basis for a build. I think I even remember finding a wreck that there was a good usable set of wings.

There was a usable set of wings in PNG, they're now mated with a fuselage from Moe, Victoria and nearing the end of a long restoration to a complete RAAF B-24 at Werribee, Vic (Aus). Not as much fun as talking about wreck recoveries, but an actual restoration of note nonetheless.

Regards

gary1954 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:56 am

TonyM wrote:

gary1954 wrote:

Back years ago when I read air classics maggotzine (refuse to read ANY challenge publication since 1976) I read an article of a B-24 that had been discovered in a lake here in the US, I want to say to was in the western region of the country. This B-24 was on a training mission and encountered IFR weather below them the pilot flew around for a while while some of the crew looked below the plane through the bomb bay section with the doors opened and found a break where he let down. with fuel running out the crew may have saw what may have appeared to him to be a snow covered field but actually belly landed on a snow covered frozen lake. The bombers tail from aft of the bomb bay section flipped over the main fuselage and back into the water. It sunk quickly with (IIRCC) no survivors. It wasn't discovered until the lake had gone down so far that the verticle stabilizers protruded the surface and peeked the curiosity of the locals. The remains of the tailgunner were still in the turret (don't know about the rest of the crew). Well thats all I have to add.....Bueller? .......Bueller?

A detailed summary of this accident appears in my book.

The B-24 crashed into Huntington Lake on 6 Dec 1943. Six were killed and two had parachuted to safety. Huntington Lake was drained and the airplane was discovered on 25 Sept 1955. Not likely that the gunner was found in the turret-- the pilot had ordered the crew to abandon ship. The men were preparing to bail out but only two were able to get out. The pilot put the plane down on the surface of the lake. This aircraft had been searching for a B-24 that had went missing the day before. That airplane was not discovered until 1960.

See Volume Two, Page 606-608 of
FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS
IN THE UNITED STATES, 1941-1945

That's right! thanks Tony, my memory ain't what it used to be. I too wonder what became of the remains of the plane.......hmmmm...delima

Django · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:37 am

Wow, that PB4Y-2 is in great shape! I'd love to see it recovered. Hell, I'd like to see every B-24/PB4Y recovered, whom am I kidding... :lol:

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:12 pm

Dig deep into your pockets, no, deeper, keep going, there that should cover it :drink3:

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:22 pm

But what constitutes a "survivor"?

The original poster lists one surviving PB4Y-2 as having "broken up in flight". Certainly a matter of semantics, but if the remains of aerial crashes count as survivors, then a surviving B-24 sits in a lake about 30 miles from my present location in Southeast Minnesota!

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:24 pm

Well share the location so we can see about rescuing the old war horse. :drink3:

Dan K · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:34 pm

cooper9411 wrote:

Well share the location so we can see about rescuing the old war horse. :drink3:

Word is that major pieces were lifted on to a barge to recover the three crewmen and then resunk in a deeper part of the lake. Lake Pepin is part of the Mississippi River flowage, and the amounts of silt deposited since 1944 would make locating even big bits a major challenge.

http://www.missingaircrew.com/ubb/cgi-b ... 00025.html

http://www.bigrivermagazine.com/pepinbomber.html

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:06 pm

TonyM wrote:

gary1954 wrote:

Back years ago when I read air classics maggotzine (refuse to read ANY challenge publication since 1976) I read an article of a B-24 that had been discovered in a lake here in the US, I want to say to was in the western region of the country. This B-24 was on a training mission and encountered IFR weather below them the pilot flew around for a while while some of the crew looked below the plane through the bomb bay section with the doors opened and found a break where he let down. with fuel running out the crew may have saw what may have appeared to him to be a snow covered field but actually belly landed on a snow covered frozen lake. The bombers tail from aft of the bomb bay section flipped over the main fuselage and back into the water. It sunk quickly with (IIRCC) no survivors. It wasn't discovered until the lake had gone down so far that the verticle stabilizers protruded the surface and peeked the curiosity of the locals. The remains of the tailgunner were still in the turret (don't know about the rest of the crew). Well thats all I have to add.....Bueller? .......Bueller?

A detailed summary of this accident appears in my book.

The B-24 crashed into Huntington Lake on 6 Dec 1943. Six were killed and two had parachuted to safety. Huntington Lake was drained and the airplane was discovered on 25 Sept 1955. Not likely that the gunner was found in the turret-- the pilot had ordered the crew to abandon ship. The men were preparing to bail out but only two were able to get out. The pilot put the plane down on the surface of the lake. This aircraft had been searching for a B-24 that had went missing the day before. That airplane was not discovered until 1960.

See Volume Two, Page 606-608 of
FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS
IN THE UNITED STATES, 1941-1945

If you have not seen or bought Tony's book it is well worth it! I picked up a copy of the 3 volume set a few years back to help wreck chasing and had my nose stuck in it for months. The figures of stateside crashes and lose of life will just BLOW your Mind!

I just wish something like that was available for Naval aircraft or even the none fatal accidents.

Tim

cooper9411 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:19 pm

I've been going through Tony's book for about two weeks now, very awesome and congratulations to Tony. Also that B-24 story reminds me of the B-25 that went down in the Monongahela River in Pittsburgh :drink3:

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