Last F-22

K5DH · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:08 pm

Mike wrote:

k5dh wrote:

......especially in the hands of the best-trained pilots in the world (my highly-biased, unapologetic, Red, White, 'n Blue opinion!).

And exactly how are they the "best-trained pilots in the world" when they've spent most of the past year grounded? :roll:

I was referring to ALL of our USAF, USN, and USMC fighter pilots! :supz:

(Not that I'm forgetting or "dissing" our transport, helo, and other pilots! They all rock. But this thread is about fighters.)

TROJANII · **Joined:** Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:18 pm **Posts:** 178

L2Driver wrote:

k5dh wrote:

And now, back to the real topic. The F-22 is certainly not without its faults. But, can you name any aircraft that was so technologically advanced for its time which didn't have some issues? It's definitely an awesome fighting machine with capabilities that would have been straight out of a science fiction novel back when I was a kid. I got to see a full-on Raptor air show demo last year. Damnedest thing I've ever seen! Its maneuverability and power just blew me away. I don't know if we'll ever really need the Raptor's dogfighting capabilities in a big-time air-to-air combat situation, but if that time comes, I suspect it'll take down any and all challengers, especially in the hands of the best-trained pilots in the world (my highly-biased, unapologetic, Red, White, 'n Blue opinion!).

The B-70 comes to mind. Stellar aircraft but it was an airframe in search of a mission. Same with the then AH-56 Cheyenne. The B-1? Another very expensive airplane in search of a mission. V-22? Extremely cool but worth the $$?
We're broke so the cost of keeping the logistical tail alive for so few airplanes is debatable, regardless of the capabilities. What good is our super, uber-fighter if it stays home because we're too afraid it might somehow be lost/compromised?

I thought the B-1 was actually being used, not looking for a mission.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

k5dh wrote:

Mike wrote:

k5dh wrote:

......especially in the hands of the best-trained pilots in the world (my highly-biased, unapologetic, Red, White, 'n Blue opinion!).

And exactly how are they the "best-trained pilots in the world" when they've spent most of the past year grounded? :roll:

I was referring to ALL of our USAF, USN, and USMC fighter pilots! :supz:

(Not that I'm forgetting or "dissing" our transport, helo, and other pilots! They all rock. But this thread is about fighters.)

And in what specific ways are they better trained than, for example, the Israelis?

Chappie · **Joined:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 am **Posts:** 987

Mike wrote:

And in what specific ways are they better trained than, for example, the Israelis?

Oh jeez. Is this just sarcasm or what?

The F-22 is a fantastic aircraft, it is just a shame it did not have a chance to at least drop some JDAMs during OEF or OIF. I agree about the demo. First time I ever saw a Raptor fly was an Andrews in 2006 during a Heritage Flight, before they debuted the full demo. Howver, it did make a couple passes and the last ended with a vertical climb to about 1,500 feet where it just hung there for about 5 seconds...just standing on its tail! The pilot then pushed over to level flight and flew away. Incredible. A full Raptor demo must be seen in person, a video does not do it justice.

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the B-1 looking for a mission. The aircraft has adapted tremendously as the world situation changed. Who would have ever thought in the 1970s that this nuclear strike aircraft would one day be a CAS aircraft? But those big white protoype B-1As were beautiful airplanes.

Chappie

TROJANII · **Joined:** Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:18 pm **Posts:** 178

Like he said, "highly biased ... opinion", no specifice way needed, just biased. And highly biased at that.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

Chappie wrote:

Mike wrote:

And in what specific ways are they better trained than, for example, the Israelis?

Oh jeez. Is this just sarcasm or what?

No, it was a serious question.

The poster made a claim that US pilots were the best trained in the world. I am simply enquiring as to the basis of this claim.

L2Driver · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:34 pm

TROJANII wrote:

I thought the B-1 was actually being used, not looking for a mission.

It may be flying now. Historically, I just remember it seeming to have endless problems and excuses about why it couldn't go to war. It was supposed to replace the B-52 but I remember seeing plenty of Buffs in action during Desert Storm. The Bone didn't make an appearance until the SAM threat was taken out. Then USAF wanted to park 35 of them so they could afford to run the remaining 60. Just a very expensive airplane that doesn't really do anything that much better than the B-52. We now have a bomber that can't carry nukes and is basically a gigantic FB-111.

Don't get me wrong. Both the B-1 and F-22 are technologically very impressive and I'm sure the F-22 would do well in the air combat arena. I just don't think the B-1 brings that much extra to the party for its price tag.

The F-22 is just plain too expensive and far too few in numbers. I'd rather see a lot more cheaper planes.

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