Rarest engine sound? Macchi Mc 72 & Fiat AS.6

Flagon · **Joined:** Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:32 am **Posts:** 74

Sorry,in fact it was not banned for it did not compete.
The engine was really late in development but I think it would be disqualified,it had two engines rather than a single one,Castoldi admits this,there was even a difference in rotation speed,2-3% was deemed acceptable.
Thank you for the videoclips,I'd never seen them before.
Ciao.

JDK · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:48 am

I take the point that it didn't proceed far enough in qualification to be banned, so either way the point is moot. However I'm not aware of any rules that stated what the aircraft could not have as configuration or structure - the rules I'm aware of (and I've not found a complete listing) all relate to what the aircraft must do - how it achieved the result is never restricted in those rules listed. So, is there a rule we haven't found?

It's neat to see the footage, I agree.

lmritger · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:54 am

Good God, that engine sound really does make the hair on the back of your neck stand straight up- what an unearthly mechanical howl! Absolutely incredible technology, even 80 years on... I never fail to marvel at the incredible complexity of racing and aero engines from the 1920s onwards.

Thanks for sharing this one James, utterly fascinating.

Lynn

Flagon · **Joined:** Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:32 am **Posts:** 74

Well,at last I read the,very few,rules and regulations for the Schneider Trophy.
Correct,there were no limitations as to the general layout of the aircraft or the NUMBER OF ENGINE(S).
I assumed that,since all competitors were single engined this was mandatory,not the case.
Guilty,sorry.
Ciao.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:15 pm

That bird has fascinated me from early on when my parents bought me a copy of the old Life book Barnstormers and Speed Kings... beautiful plane, and amazing record. I've got a model of it, as well.

I've always thought it would be fun to try and build a plane to break that record, too.

Ryan

Stephan Wilkinson · **Joined:** Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:23 am **Posts:** 699

Who said the Schneider Trophy was for single-engine airplanes? There were two tandem-engine (entirely separate tractor and pusher engines both in the same nacelle) aircraft entered in the 1921 Venice contest. One was the Savoia S.22, with two 250-hp Asso engines, which crashed during a preparation flight but was legally entered. Not sure what the other one was, may have been another S.22. The Schneider was an "unlimited" race category, and just as is true of the Reno Racer Unlimited category, twins just never hacked it.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

RyanShort1 wrote:

I've always thought it would be fun to try and build a plane to break that record, too.

There was a plan for the late John Sandberg's 'Tsunami' to go after the record. There are drawings of it mounted on floats around somewhere.

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:13 am

lmritger wrote:

Thanks for sharing this one James, utterly fascinating.

No problem Lynn, it's a neat machine, eh?

Flagon wrote:

Well,at last I read the,very few,rules and regulations for the Schneider Trophy.
Correct,there were no limitations as to the general layout of the aircraft or the NUMBER OF ENGINE(S).
I assumed that,since all competitors were single engined this was mandatory,not the case.
Guilty,sorry.

No problem, glad it's not in dispute, anyway!

RyanShort1 wrote:

I've always thought it would be fun to try and build a plane to break that record, too.

It's a neat paper exercise, certainly. However it'd take an awful lot of green paper to do it for real...

Stephan Wilkinson wrote:

There were two tandem-engine (entirely separate tractor and pusher engines both in the same nacelle) aircraft entered in the 1921 Venice contest. One was the Savoia S.22, with two 250-hp Asso engines, which crashed during a preparation flight but was legally entered.

Thanks Stephen. I was trying to remember the S.22, but couldn't, but got onto the unsuccessful (single engined hydrofoil) Piaggio P.7 and spent all my time looking at that.

For today's bizarre aircraft: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.7

Dunno if it's me, but it's the kind of aircraft a super-villain like 'The Claw' needs to operate.

Mike wrote:

There was a plan for the late John Sandberg's 'Tsunami' to go after the record. There are drawings of it mounted on floats around somewhere.

Good point, Mike. Another lost dream. Wasn't there a drawing by Paul Coggan in Warbirds Worldwide?

Thanks all,

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:25 am

And here's a great shot of it after the record (record breaking soot on the side, there, kids) at the 1934 Paris Air Salon.

JimW · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:28 am

I have read that the A6 was designed so that the front airscrew, which was 20% less efficient than the rear, was driven by the rear engine and so it also drove the supercharger for both engines. The front engine drove the rear airscrew only. As as has already been said this allowed for a variation of only 2-3% in the two engines rotational speed, once the difficulties with the carburation on such a complex engine were resolved, mostly by the development in fuel technology by Rod Banks a british fuel expert and ground running with a fan to provide some ram air effect to simulate the forward speed of the aircraft

airnutz · **Posted:** Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:06 am

Great sound! Great thread!...tho off-topic.

Not surprising, he never saw a double-standard he didn't embrace.... :lol:

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

airnutz wrote:

...tho off-topic.

Not surprising, he never saw a double-standard he didn't embrace.... :lol:

?????????

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:57 am

Just funnin Mike. Irony(pot calling kettle) and kicking a little dust on the shiney boots of an official from the Ministry of Discussion.

airnutz · **Posted:** Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:46 am

Mike wrote:

airnutz wrote:

...tho off-topic.

Not surprising, he never saw a double-standard he didn't embrace.... :lol:

?????????

Sorry, just to clarify, I thought of it as an air racing topic rather than warbird.

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:13 am

Anyone who is genuinely interested in the aircraft of W.W.II and isn't interested in this historic machine...

... can just skip the thread.

FFS, let's be too smart by half and let's not have something that's at least related to warbird technology not get dragged and dumped into one of the multiplicity of moribund sub fora. Thanks, eh?

Meanwhile, back on the topic in question, here's a rather nice model on display at the Musee de l'Air at le Bourget, near Paris.

JimW, I'd be interested in where you read, that, if you can recall!

Regards,

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Rarest engine sound? Macchi Mc 72 & Fiat AS.6

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