Warbird Information Exchange

I could of told you this Ztex ages off before i even started contributing information to WIX over 6years ago.

What i noted striaght away when i was shown WIX first time in 2005 is that and still is sadly......so many people are agressive , rude and put others down for sharing news/thoughts..

WIX posters ......and going off what Ztex found out....forget warbird owners may read what people write here.
I wouldnt blame some US warbird owners if what Ztex was told out in the field is true.

It comes back to many US posters adopting this forum on its many pages....as a political pitch to vent their views.

Try talking aviation and warbird instead.
YOU ARE ALL HERE FOR AVIATION NOT POLITICAL TALK.

Even the Osama post to me is way way way off the course.
There is a example - it doesnt belong on a warbird main thread spot but in off topic/military if at all. Why this hasnt been moved as a prime example.. shows me the lack of control on the forum.

I think Scott and Ztex need to ensure people discuss warbirds civilly and politely.

If they cant without resorting to rudeness and really poor words, then ban the people who cause WIX these problems.

Only REAL political issue is for WIX as a US based driven forum is the FAA and US Govt aviation controls. Discuss the policies NOT the people is how i would view it.

Take a page from Australia, relax, step back and before you press submit THINK about what you have written.
THINK before you send what you have written....... is what you want out their in public domain for other warbird owners to see... ???
IMAGINE if you were the topic ... how would you react to somone carrying on about your plane??

Another hint is dont harass or attack people for what they share. If someone posts something,.,,, then take it as a useful bit of information.
If by the chance , they are wrong so be it. Maybe use some manners and kindly point out they are wrong.

If you cant be polite, dont say something damaging when in the long run only you will get hurt.
Ive lost count of the number of petty poor mannered posters on WIX who utterly ruin many topics all for their own antics. Another reaosn why people leave...

Shape up or ship off....dont like common sense or manners dont come to WIX is best advice.
I have for nearly 1yr avoided READING .. yes READING .. WIX as i saw so much hositlity to so many people why would anyone bother to read or even suggest to others this forum..

Your all making the forum, so dont print what you dont want to be seen by others.
And best of all bite your tongue if you dont agree.
Learn to live with the facts that NOT everyone going to agree with you. So be it.
You will live another day. Sun will rise and life goes on.

Regards

Phil

Well said Cougar. "No one raindrop ever assumes it is responsible for the flood."

Ken

Zane and others have some excellent points.... this is the issue I tried to raise when I suggested that WIX require the use of real names. Some agree, some don't some got their feelings hurt. I still believe that using real names will make the anonymous voices a bit more circumspect. It won't solve everything... but it will go a long way to making things more civil around here.... respect each other.... as Bill & Ted said: "Be Excellent to Each Other."

My two cents... require real names.... make a separate forum for political discussions and moderators summarily move offending threads there....

gunny

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Scott 'Gunny' Perdue
www.scottperdue.com

I'm a relative newbie, a refugee from a couple of other boards compared to which this is a love fest .

I have also in the past been a moderator elsewhere and it's a thankless task taking up a lot of your spare time. Easy to be enthusiastic and conscientious in the beginning but that fades quite rapidly. To aid the moderators I have two suggestions:
1. A sub-forum dedicated to politics. Since many people like to indulge, give them a sandbox (soapbox?) and enforce the rule in other fora;
2. An ignore list function to which individuals can banish those others who get up their nose.

It would be nice if members could be self-policing but that's not going to happen to the extent necessary.
Everybody has their pet peeves, inaccurate color schemes being one of mine, but I don't place much store by those who desert the forum in a huff simply because someone else pushes their particular button.

Keep up the good work and don't sweat the small stuff. It's all small stuff BTW.

Zane, I read your editorial very carefully, & I have to agree with your points. Your thoughts are valid & well said. I have made a living in aviation as a licensed A&P for the last 34 years, with probably the last 20 of those as an I.A. I have worked on Warbirds as a hobby for many of those years, although I am not active in that area anymore. I have met, & known a lot of people associated with the Warbird movement over the years, & I have to say, a couple of years ago, I would have invited any one of those folks to come check out WIX. We have had over the years the best collection Warbird people, & I mean in all areas, pilots, mechanics, historians, writers, hobbyist, collectors, airport bums, wannabes, has-beens, you name it we have had somebody that knew about anything a person could want to know on the subject, & we have Jack, that’s probably got a photo of it! Well over these last couple years we have seemed to have collected some jerks that waste our time & theirs to express themselves in poor fashion that creates a childish BS type environment that frankly I would not care to share with someone from the Warbird family that I respected. We still have some very good posts here, but we have a lot of unprofessional behavior that I feel has no place in aviation period. One of the best rule of thumbs to remember, that if you have something to say to someone, or something about a subject, just always pretend that whomever you are speaking to is sitting right across the table from you in the same room with a locked door. I am sure that I have been out of a line a couple times, & if so I apologize. The deal is you just treat some one or the subject like you would want to be treated, & dam well show some respect for other people.
Zane, WIX has become somewhat of a joke, but all is not lost. You people that are being the problem know who you are, & if you are not smart enough to figure that out, I hope the Mods do it for you.
Now with all that said, I would like again to thank Scott & the Mods that have hung in there with WIX.
One more thing;
“Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him. “
- The Great Santini "Get ready for a fighter pilot"

Just had to wrap up my rant with a little humor there.
Regards to all
Robbie

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Fly Fast Make Noise!

I thought Z's post was very interesting as well. I agree with a lot of it.

A key point is that, I'm sure all would agree, it would be great if we could have active participation on this forum by more people who own and operate warbirds for the greater knowledge and information they could share. Therefore, it's certainly worth at least considering how the tone of the board could change to make that more likely. And it's worth hearing what the real warbird people have to say on the subject.

Niceness and civility is great. Many of us would agree that this forum is about average for internet forums on this. Doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't be better than average. There will always be those who don't mind aggressive language or even who actively seek the combat. Some of those people may be warbird owners. It may even be that a guy who owns the coolest warbird of anybody on the forum and is willing to contribute long and thoughtful insights on it, also happens to enjoy oppositional political discourse so much that he just won't stop. If the forum cracks down hard on niceness and civility, such a warbird owner inevitably may either be banned or lose interest in participating despite the huge contributions that he can and does make. Not that I'm naming any names here.

On- and off-topic posts have to be handled differently. The two basic choices with off-topic posts like political rants are to ban them or consign them to a sub-form that's easy to ignore. I favor the latter because it gives regulars an outlet for off-topic feelings and (one hopes) makes it less likely that they will creep into the main hangar. Anyone who complains about off-topic discussions that occur in designated off-topic areas of the board, it seems to me, just isn't ready to participate in internet forums yet. I have never opened the Bin Laden thread even though it's in the Wix Hangar because I have absolutely no interest in the opinion of any other forum member on the subject and it probably would just annoy me, maybe even tempt me to post something argumentative. What's difficult about participating in off-topic discussions or not as you see fit? It's not as if warbird owners have more mature opinions on such off-topic matters than the rest of us.

On-topic stuff is trickier. Paint scheme talk is a good example. No question it's on-topic. Many people display their warbirds to the public, most of the public's experience of them is visual, much of that visual impact comes from the paint; so it's at least arguably not a trivial or petty subject either. A no-criticism rule on that or any other on-topic subject, just in the hope that more real warbird people might participate, would make this a much less interesting and useful forum. There is actually a warbird/airshow forum or two out there where a warbird owner can expect nothing but back-patting, and those probably do draw more participation from some owners and operators who never want to hear that the real Lou IV had another name on the right side, or whatever. I can't say for sure, because those forums aren't interesting enough for me to read regularly. What I can say is that while it's always better not to be harsh or insulting, changing the board to accommodate an owner who sees any form of questioning or criticism of, say, a paint job as something he "has to defend" and doesn't want to, might be too high of a price.

Also, warbird owners and operators should know that if they actually appear here and start posting, the discussion of their planes will instantly become much less critical than if they are absent or invisible. Think about any modeling forum, or the modeling section of this forum -- there's a strong norm against criticizing pictures someone posts of his own models, because nobody likes having his own workmanship faulted unless he's specifically asking for critique. Think how positive people on this board are about Taigh's PV or Bill's or Jim's Spitfire or Gary's -- uh sorry, I mean CAF's B-24 and B-29. There might be a paint scheme remark here or there but it will be offhand and a lot politer. Contributing here is the best way to have only nice things said about your plane. Should we all write as if the plane's owner is invisibly reading the post? Maybe -- but it's hard to remember to do that -- and what if he isn't? And if he is, what is he contributing? The owners who actually post here get nicer treatment automatically because of how social norms operate on the internet, but also, they earn it.

August

Very well said August.

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Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!

Well stated posts troops.
HOWEVER...I gotta' STRONGLY disagree with a suggestion a couple of youse have made. That is: having a separate forum area for political "discussion". I use the term "discussion" with reservations. The "discussion" as everyone here knows, will quickly morph into hostility. It's the nature of the beast. Hell...some here get hostile over paint colors and tail numbers.
Arguing politics and/or religion are the easiest ways to alienate people. The name of this site should tell us all we need to know about what should (and shouldn't) go on within these walls. ie. WARBIRD Information Exchange.
You put a politics forum in here and people are gonna' get pissed and run to the mods whining, "He/she called me a @#$%&. I want him/her banned." Troops...we REALLY don't need that.
Even now, some will claim the boundaries of the WARBIRD part are being stretched, and sometimes crossed. That boundary is allowed to flex at the discretion of Scott and the mods. I'm good with that. I read the rules when I joined. Some will say I've pushed the boundaries. I hope not.

Mudge the epistleist*

*Yeah...that's a word. I just made it up. It means "long winded"

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Land of the free because of the brave

I was introduced to WIX by a warbird pilot. He told me to "watch out". There are subjects I don't post about because they might not be worth the hassle. Pictures of the Spitfire I flew in (TE308), my "flight" in a military A-10 simulator, etc. One of the earlier comments on this thread included an offer to act as a moderator. Modern boards are hard to moderate if you do not work in IT, as they are active across multiple time zones. The old BBS type were not available unless the moderator was there. I have about an hour a day to look at all of WIX, I'm sure many others are in the same boat. WIX shares a lot of the problems of any volunteer organization, without enough participation in the management of the group, the founders eventually "burn out" and the group dissipates. I guess it could be worse, in the old days on "Gun and Knife.com forums" the "discussion" on the M1 Garand board got so bad the group owner sent people that tried to post to that board to "Garand Hell". Told them to trash the place all they wanted. I think we can do better than that.

Taking a quick break here.
My thoughts-
Everyone should identify by their name. Add a nickname but with your true name.
Possibly add titles that are applied for and given by a mod. Know it increases workload but if Warbird owner, pilot, mechanic or aircraft owner, pilot, mechanic or historian, writer ect are a part of declared info presented then info that is posted have some more weight. This would be known to anyone who visits for a 1st time and would possibly help info posted in regards to certain instances. I know its cliquish but might help.
WIX might need to reinvent itself from time to time. If you want to have a higher regard in the arena of warbirds then sponsorship of something, fund raising directed at a specific event or aircraft or publication of posts into a book would make WIX more of a part of operation of warbirds rather than just reporting events or in some eyes, being just a rumor mill.
Difficult, maybe, but all in this thread is good food for thought.

_________________
Rich Palmer

Remember an Injured Youth
benstear.org
#64- Stay Strong and Keep the Faith

BOOM BOOM, ROUND ROUND, PROPELLER GO

Don't Be A Dilbert!

I have only read Zane's original post here and not the replies but I would like to add my .02 cents. First off, I could not agree more that WIX is far and above the best warbird related web site on the net. I rarely purchase magazines any more because WIX provides more and better information much sooner and often even the photos on WIX are just as good! Second, while there certainly has been an increase in the amount of squabbling and other nonsense it does not by any stretch of the imagination define what the WIX is all about. Anybody who is avoiding the board due to a few bad apples or based on some negative feedback they have heard are depriving themselves of a tremendous resource based on a nearly insignificant fraction of the overall picture. I myself still derive great pleasure from participating here and my overall impression of WIX is overwhelmingly a positive one. I would certainly miss it were it to cease to be and I would like to publicly thank Scott and the other volunteers here for their time and effort.

Respectfully,
Chad Veich

Gunny Im with you on this one, just like in the last thread you brought it up in.Without hiding behind a nickname maybe people will think a little more before posting. Too bad some on hear are afraid that some warbird nut will come stalking/hurt their family, I believe that was the excuse for some in that other thread ( like really you gotta be kidding )

Dave

PS Mudge you did go over the line in the Jesse James thread a few years back.

Seems to me the problem is not what you post, how you post it, who you are, what you are, where you are, what your name is, what you own or don't own. It's where you post it on WIX. Seems the powers that run this place layed it out quite well and if only people would post in the right locations there would be so few problems. Think about it!. If this thread and such threads as OBL's death and so on would simply be posted in the proper locations, then the banter and bickering would probably be much less and the exposure to the appropriate threads in the appropriate locations would be much better. Example: If I visit the off topic section and see the Bin Laden thread, I know what to expect and what to stay away from much better than if I see it in the WIX hangar, it really makes sense when you think about what the appropriate locations are set up for. When I visit the other areas I go there with a pre-conceived idea of what I'm getting into BEFORE I even open a thread. In other words my mind is already prepared for the possibility of a disagreement of such things as CY not breaking the sound barrier, PB, NMUSAF, CAF, politics, my dad can beat up your dad, paint colors, invasion stripes, shark mouths, wheel well color, space aliens, women's breasts etc.

When I open a thread in the WIX hangar I assume it has the appropriate material that the WIX hangar has defined as it's basis. very simple right? If there were a political section I would know exacty what I could possibly get into if I visit that location. Very simple again right? Of course this all entails that each member still abide by life's typical positive natural human behaviors., you know, ... respect for one another, compassion for one another, kindness to each other etc.

So my simple advice to the WIX managment, mods and members is simple, please post with the right amount of respect in the right section on WIX, modes please relocate a thread ASAP to the right section without delay, warbird owners realize that if your going to own a public high profile item, that your item will be subject to public praise or scrutiny and live with it, young WIX posters think before posting, older WIX posters don't post drunk, WIX posters who think they have a sense of humor everyone will get (i.e. Franklin) expect a few who don't get it and be ready to explain yourself .... and never, ever .... ever bad mouth a fellow WIX member unless you know you can get away with it ... haha ... and remember this website was created for entertainment, have fun, real life is tough enough

One thing you have to remember with the "real name" thing guys: How are you going to check that forum members use their real name? There are people here from all over the world. I could tell you my real name is Penelope Johnson and you wouldn't know if I was lying or not!

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Magister Aviation
It's all in my book

I think in your case it's easy to tell your real name IS Penelope by the color of your purse strap in your avatar photo .... .... sorry couldn't help myself ... lol