Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:53 pm
I don't know Rob, but they looked exactly like the ones in pictures I saw from Morotai. They are small with a narrow chord. I will post some photos on my webshots account.
Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:13 pm
chris will do. another thought, call the author of the morotai book upon your return home. better yet, i'll try, he doesn't live far from me, i'll call information, & relay info to you, he may still be alive & maybe you can glean info from him for this trip or your next expedition. also a blatant hint that might be under your nose....... if you remember my dad's morotai pics that i posted on pacific wrecks, you'll remember a pic of a twin engine Japanese plane set on fire, & in the background was a parked navy pby. point being try to locate some of the old seaplane bases their, that Japanese plane could have been bulldozed anywhere. & who knows what else lies in the vicinity??? best, tom
Hi Tom:
Please do that, after all I went through the trouble to go there, and it wouldn't take much to do a little homework. Those Lieutanants will not help us forever. I am certain there are more planes tucked away there, as the natives have reported it to the Morotai caretakers. We could simply find an answer by searching the AWM photos, and looking for any lone aircraft set aside.
In fact I saw a photo on AWM of a Beaufighter dismantled after a crash pushed off to the side. If anyone can verify the exact location we could get it quite easily. Our TNI-AU officers said they'd photo any plane we direct them to, and verify its existence.Time is short, after a year or so our friends will transfer on.
Also, we may want to ask questions to a Morotai vetrans group online. I will need to anyway as I have found someone's dogtag.
Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:23 pm
chris, haven't forgotten... dad has been rather p.o,ed lately. will ask at a good moment. best, tom 
Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:55 pm
Chris - Your information on the scrapping location and parts is very informative. This had to be the location, between the runways, where the mass scrapping occured after the war. The inventory in 1986 did not include Spitfires or P-47s, so this is not the location of the Voll jungle graveyard.
Mr. george, please don't assume that because I saw Spitfire props that this wasn't Mr. Volls area. The main scrapyard between runways 2 and 3 had the B-24s in it that Voll mentions. I don't think there were any other allied scrapyards at Morotai. Just the Japanese one. I have a hunch that only individual airframes may have been left around
And remember, the spin was that in '88 the 30 or so planes were hauled to Java, not smelted at Morotai.
Mr. George, that was the spin, but it goes deeper than that. The planes were clearly smelted at Morotai, and the ingots were shipped to Java. There is no use for ingots at Morotai. The villagers would be at a loss on what to do with them.
Sounds like they have tightened the screws on looking around since 1989 when the Australian vet visited. At least they showed him some ravines filled with jungle-covered war relics, and he was allowed to walk Wama. Of course, many areas he wanted to visit were "closed" or off-limits. I'm sure you are exhausted, but when you get rested up some, could you go into some detail re: how you got permission to get on the island, how long you were there, what its like trying to get around, etc. With the location of this smelting site you described, I hate to say it, but it appears the mystery of Morotai only deepens.
The mystery doesn't deepen, because it is clear about how they dealt with the ingots. What is not clear is what's at Wama. I think the officers told me that's where the Japanese scrapyard is.
Can you contact Mr. Voll, and get the location of the ravines? I can get photos from the two officers I befriended, and possibly recovery permission.
As far as getting to Morotai; it's a matter of flying on Merpati, and staying in a very under equipped guest house with people who only speak Indonesian. There is also a lack of good food to eat. I had to live on Ramen noodles for 4 days. Getting around Morotai was a chore. The first 2 days we were thinking about survival. Getting some food to eat, and trying to figure out if we could fly out or take speedboats out. Coincidently, after all that was done the 2 officers came to my guest house that evening.
They tracked me down after I had made the pistol armed military guard at the airport pretty nervous. He couldn't speak English, and his 10 associates stared me doen and laughed at me until they figured out what to do with me. I actually thought he might use his weapon, scary..
Anyway, the officers (in civilian clothes) asked me why I was there, and I said "to look at wildlife", because Morotai is a militarily sensitive place. Then after I found out they were Air Force Lieutenants, I told them my true intent to look around at planes. I asked if they'd be interested in helping me recover a plane, and they really wanted to see it happen. At first they said they would take me to the old scrapyard where the planes were scrapped (Still with P-47 pieces), and then they would take me to Wama. However, the next day after they talked to the base C.O. they denied permission. They said the order comes from the very top from the highest military officials in Jakarta.
They could only take me to the water pit, also surrounded by very high Kunai grass. It was where the allies used to get their water. It has concrete stairs going down into it. Still very interesting.
In the future, they said, if you want full access, you'll need permission from Jakarta.
The only other question I have for you George is if you have Mr. Volls contact info, and where you think the aircraft in ravines are.
Chris [/quote]
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:21 pm
Chris - Thanks for answering my questions. Its obviously a dangerous place, with the armed police, remoteness and primitive facilities.
Mr. Tom Voll, a worldwide warbird broker, passed away several years ago, per Rob Mears, who had worked with him.
The ravines filled with war material were seen by the Australian vet, George Battley, in 1989. He was taken by road from Daruba along the east coast, where he was "shown some large American dumps in ravines covered by jungle." He did not say if it was planes or tanks or what. Maybe it was too hard to see through the coverage to recognize what was in there. And he didn't say how close they let him get.
I always had the impression that the planes that were not scrapped after the war were just not taken to the smelter site, because hundreds, if not thousands, were smelted post-war. This small group (relatively) of about 30 aircraft would surely not have just been left at the smelter for another 43 years, at least logic tells me they wouldn't. But who knows, maybe they were.
It is perplexing that you were not allowed on Wama, and this denial from the highest authority. What could be over there? Why are they so secretive about all these different places on the island?
Mr. Tom Voll, a worldwide warbird broker, passed away several years ago, per Rob Mears, who had worked with him.
The ravines filled with war material were seen by the Australian vet, George Battley, in 1989. He was taken by road from Daruba along the east coast, where he was "shown some large American dumps in ravines covered by jungle." He did not say if it was planes or tanks or what. Maybe it was too hard to see through the coverage to recognize what was in there. And he didn't say how close they let him get.
I always had the impression that the planes that were not scrapped after the war were just not taken to the smelter site, because hundreds, if not thousands, were smelted post-war. This small group (relatively) of about 30 aircraft would surely not have just been left at the smelter for another 43 years, at least logic tells me they wouldn't. But who knows, maybe they were.
It is perplexing that you were not allowed on Wama, and this denial from the highest authority. What could be over there? Why are they so secretive about all these different places on the island?
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:28 pm
chris, i asked my dad, & he has no recall of japanese or u.s. scrap areas, sorry. totally unrelated morotai tidbit from my dad though. he did remember that when the 31st infantry division took the island they found that the japanese had a leper colony their, but don't go looking where that was!!!! i'll still try the morotai book author, & will let you know, hopefully he's still kicking. regards, tom
Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:42 pm
THanks Tom!
George, You wrote:
Are you saying the smelter was put in by the allies after the war? How do you know this? An English speaking native told me "about ten years ago the planes were taken to Krakatau Steel Mill in Java". So again these were the obvious planes. I think the 30 planes Mr. Voll refers to are the ones in the main scrap yard between runways 2 and 3.
I don't know. Those were the same questions I had when I spoke with those officers. These seemed a little dodgy when I was talking to them. I even told them" It sounds like we're talking in circles, almost like you are avoiding my questions".
Anyway, do you have the contact info for the Ausie gentleman?
Chris
George, You wrote:
I always had the impression that the planes that were not scrapped after the war were just not taken to the smelter site, because hundreds, if not thousands, were smelted post-war. This small group (relatively) of about 30 aircraft would surely not have just been left at the smelter for another 43 years, at least logic tells me they wouldn't. But who knows, maybe they were.
Are you saying the smelter was put in by the allies after the war? How do you know this? An English speaking native told me "about ten years ago the planes were taken to Krakatau Steel Mill in Java". So again these were the obvious planes. I think the 30 planes Mr. Voll refers to are the ones in the main scrap yard between runways 2 and 3.
It is perplexing that you were not allowed on Wama, and this denial from the highest authority. What could be over there? Why are they so secretive about all these different places on the island?
I don't know. Those were the same questions I had when I spoke with those officers. These seemed a little dodgy when I was talking to them. I even told them" It sounds like we're talking in circles, almost like you are avoiding my questions".
Anyway, do you have the contact info for the Ausie gentleman?
Chris
Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:25 pm
Chris - I don't have proof that a smelter was used after the war, just using critical thinking. As I understand it, the island was crammed full of planes and they put them anywhere and everywhere there was any available space. Then came the mass scrapping. Maybe they tore them down and shipped the components, but that doesn't seem very efficient to me. Talk about labor-intensive. And think how many ships that would take. But, again, maybe they did do that. Just doesn't seem feasible to me.
As far as the vet goes, remember, he and his sons started their trip from Perth. His sons are Robert and John Battley. All this is in AFTER THE BATTLE Issue 68. Thats really all I know about him.
Of all the mysteries regarding Morotai, what seems the most irrational and illogical to me is that after Mr. Voll obviously explained their value (vs scrap metal value), the planes were scrapped within two years.
As far as the vet goes, remember, he and his sons started their trip from Perth. His sons are Robert and John Battley. All this is in AFTER THE BATTLE Issue 68. Thats really all I know about him.
Of all the mysteries regarding Morotai, what seems the most irrational and illogical to me is that after Mr. Voll obviously explained their value (vs scrap metal value), the planes were scrapped within two years.
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:11 pm
Hi ROb:
I didn't have time to sweat, it was a tense situation that changed quickly. If you want to hear about tense, you should go to Ternate. Very scary indeed.
I didn't have time to sweat, it was a tense situation that changed quickly. If you want to hear about tense, you should go to Ternate. Very scary indeed.
Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:15 pm
George:
I appreciate your enthusiasm, it makes a difference the WIX board. Anyway, I looked at the photos of Morotai in 1946 in the AWM archives, and it was clear that the majority of the planes were crammed between runways 2 and 3. They were left there to rot, and the allies left. The smelter was brought in around 1989, and the planes were smelted then shipped to Java.
All of the airworthy planes were flown out of Morotai. The ones left behind were cannabalized and damaged planes.
The whole island was not crammed full of planes according to the photos. Only one particular area was.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, it makes a difference the WIX board. Anyway, I looked at the photos of Morotai in 1946 in the AWM archives, and it was clear that the majority of the planes were crammed between runways 2 and 3. They were left there to rot, and the allies left. The smelter was brought in around 1989, and the planes were smelted then shipped to Java.
All of the airworthy planes were flown out of Morotai. The ones left behind were cannabalized and damaged planes.
The whole island was not crammed full of planes according to the photos. Only one particular area was.
Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:09 am
Hi Rob:
Yes, it's true I may have had gained permission to go there, but nothing would have been found. Anything outsid ethe main scrapyard is hidden in the tall grass.
The 2 officers who said they would assist in research told me in the 2 years they've been stationed there. They have only found the one P-47 tail, and that was it.
And again, this is why I asked the WIXers to help research Morotai to see if anything exists outside the main scrap yard which is now gone. Our military friends on Morotai could then explore and photograph the areas.
Chris
Yes, it's true I may have had gained permission to go there, but nothing would have been found. Anything outsid ethe main scrapyard is hidden in the tall grass.
The 2 officers who said they would assist in research told me in the 2 years they've been stationed there. They have only found the one P-47 tail, and that was it.
And again, this is why I asked the WIXers to help research Morotai to see if anything exists outside the main scrap yard which is now gone. Our military friends on Morotai could then explore and photograph the areas.
Chris
Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:43 am
re. the P-51 - I've heard rumors of an existing ex-AURI (TNI-AU) P-51D at "Jalang" (sic!) - and at one time this was given as serial "F-332", a former NEIAF example (N3-632 / H-332). My Indonesian contact said that "Jalang" doesn't point to any location, but your "Palang"
Malang
Lanud Abdulrachamn Saleh
The Mustang is on a pole (very high) at the entrance to the base and is in poor shape