Un identified B-25 empenageeeee can you hep me ID it?

[gary1954]

Gary,
Why not asked to Tony or Carl @ Aero Trader? They''ll know.

Well, That is a good question, and one I have asked myself a couple of times over. First, if someone will PM me his email address, I'll move this monkey to him to see if he can answer the question. I have enlarged the photo on my PC and the faded number appears to be one of three. These are:
6852C
8852C
9852C
my photoshop program went Tango Uniform so I can't provide you guys with a cropped shot of the Civil. It is a pretty good resolution photo if anyone wants to do that to verify my possibilities in numbers, which I would appreicate it if you did maybe my question could be resolved.
I regret that I didn't ask him when I was out there back in the 80's, but him running a business, I just don't like to interrupt people in their work. I would also like to have the serial number of the B-26 Marauder he has stashed there, which is this one I shot in May 1988.

Gary,

None of those are valid registration numbers for B-25s. Kermit's B-25J 43-28059 was previously registered as N9857C before being moved to Canadian registry. The aircraft sat wingless and tailess for many years during the 1980s inside of Aero Trader's hanger during various stages of restoration. The tail section I am fairly certain is off of that aircraft. During hte restoration it was determined to use the rear fuselage of 44-30090. AS you can see below there is a link to a picture of 43-28059 during it's life under Canadian registry. You can see in this picture the faded numbers N9857C from the paint being removed for the Candian registration numbers. The picture very much resembles the faded numbers on the tail section in the picture.

Ryan
http://napoleon130.tripod.com/sitebuild ... hell54.jpg

Ryan, I can appreciate your comments here, But the fact remains, that the numbers on the side of these remains of a B-25, I can't locate anywhere to put them to a B-25 on our civil registry. Blow the frickin thing up, and you too will see where my delima comes into play. the Last four of the Civil Registration number is clearly 852C.

[rwdfresno]

Ryan, I can appreciate your comments here, But the fact remains, that the numbers on the side of these remains of a B-25, I can't locate anywhere to put them to a B-25 on our civil registry. Blow the frickin thing up, and you too will see where my delima comes into play. the Last four of the Civil Registration number is clearly 852C.

The number comination 852 has not been used on a B-25 in the history of the US civil registry. Also if you look at the pic of 43-28059 you can see that the faded N number looks nearly identical to what you see in your picture. Also the time period that the fuselage was stored behind the Aero Trader hanger in Chino coresponds with the identity. Also, N9852C has been registered to a Cessna 182 since 1978.

These are the serial numbers and N numbers of aircraft that Aero Trader has done "major" work on or owned (mostly acurate maybe missing one or 2)

40-2347 N75831, XB-GOG, N2825B
42-32354
43-5022 N4903V
43-28059 N9857C, C-GTTM, N26975, N1943J
43-28204 N9856C
44-29812 N2854G
44-29839 N7669C
44-29943 N9444Z, N944
44-30090 N9633C
44-30254 RCAF 5211, CF-MWC, N41123
44-30606 N5249V, N201L
44-30627 FAV 4115, N45HA
44-30756 N9936Z
44-30761 N3398G
44-31466 N3446G
44-86715 N3442G
44-86797 N3438G
45-8835 N69345, CF-DKU, N5672V
45-8882 N75754, N32T
45-8887 N3680G
45-8898 N3681G, N898BW

This is the list of airframes that have been disassembled to the point where the rear fuselage was seperated from the center section while at Chino that I am aware of.

43-28059 N9857C, C-GTTM, N26975, N1943J Kermit's possible
44-29943 N9444Z, N944 possible
44-30090 N9633C possible
44-30254 RCAF 5211, CF-MWC, N41123 Paul Alan's possible
44-30627 FAV 4115, N45HA ?
44-30761 N3398G fuselage sitting in my hangar not this aircraft
44-86715 N3442G my father sold to Bill Klaers not this aircraft

As you can see by the possible candidates there is only one that has an N number that could be confused with ??852C. I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming and the most likely scenario is that the image is deceiving. Anyway I hope this is helpful. Anyway I have Carl's email address if you want to run it by him but my feeling is that he will confirm this.

Cheers,

Ryan

[gary1954]

The B-26 forward section in Gary's photo is probably the same fuselage piece that is in Aero Traders' storage yard in Borrego Springs, CA. Was this piece from the same group of B-26s that crash landed together in the Canadian wilderness that Kermit's B-26 N4279J comes from?

It is one of them yes Sir.

I sit corrected on the B-26 Martin Marauder photo I posted, Mr. Scholl "The B-26 cockpit section in the photo is not one of the million dollar valley Marauders. This is one of two that came from a man in LA who acquired them after the war (presumably from the scrappers here at Chino). He had started to modify them into trailer/campers but never finished the job. His family gave them to Tallichet. The photo was taken in Tallichet's back yard aka MARC. I bought them from Tallichet later. One I sold to Hill AFB Museum and traded the other to Kermit weeks. I still have it in storage at my place in the desert."

Last edited by gary1954 on Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[rwdfresno]

Previous discussion here on WIX identified this forward section as either 41-31856 or 41-35075. Has anyone been able to confirm it's identity? Also, I have this section owned by Kermit Weeks, previously Tallichet.
Thanks for the photo Gary, Gary Austin provided the other photo previously seen here on WIX of this piece. The Two Garys have this one covered!

I believe that it is most likley one of these 2 airframes or the second "camper" B-26 forward fuselages from Pacific Palisades, CA that was recovered with 41-31856 and not one of the 3 airframes that came from the "Million Dollar Valley."

The Million Dollar Valley B-26s were 40-1464, 40-1501 and 40-1459. The forward fuselage of 40-1464 was destroyed in the crash and the noses of 40-1459 and 40-1501 are included in the Kermit Week's (was already on gear and being restored at this time) and MAPS (fuselage did not resemble this) restorations).

Ryan

[rwdfresno]

Thanks for that Ryan. I have 40-1501 being retored at the Pima Air and Space Museum, and is still part of the Tallichet estate. According to Hill AFB's website, their forward fuselage of 40-1370 was recovered in Alaska, also by Tallichet in 2000? http://www.hill.af.mil/library/factshee ... sp?id=5663 Now there's another forward fuselage recently recovered in Canada from Watson Lake, covered here earlier. http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... 4&start=30
Found this site after a Google search that has comprehensive serial number list with loss report. http://home.fuse.net/vaughan/aircraft.htm

Greetings,

The information from the Hill site is a little misleading in the fact that the front fusleage section was actually aquired and not recovered. I believe it is one of the original "camper" front fuselage sections that Tallichet obtained. It is being used to augment the parts recovered from King Salmon which was essentially the rear fuselage and empennage components of 40-1370. They needed to purchase forward fuselage and center section pieces to complete the airframe.

Pima has parts from 40-1501 and that is the identity they are using for the airframe but it has components from a couple of other airframes. I think included is the rear fuselage of the B-26 from the movie "A Guy Named Joe" but not entirely sure what the makup is.

Ryan

[gary1954]

Concur. The Registry lists Apache Princess as once being registered N9857C. "857C" is barely legible on the fuselage.

SN

I took Gary Austin up on his suggestion, and Ken and Steve are correct. According to Mr. Scholl "The correct N number is 9857C. It is the rear fuselage from Kermit Week's B-25 that we built for him. It was damaged in a wind storm here at Chino. We elected to use another rear fus that was undamaged and still had the original life raft compartment still intact."

ID resolved. Thanks Ken, Steve, and Mr. Scholl

[ProfromDover]

"Is that a Ventura nose standing next to the B-26? That looks like a fun playground! That or a major wasp/yellow-jacket nesting site!"

That looks more like a Hudson nose... Lots of plexi...

[aerovin]

An interesting read is The Backyard Bomber of Pacific Palisades by Martha French Patterson (1984) tells the stories of these two airplanes as she is the wife of Charles Patterson, the gentleman who bought the better parts of two B-26s in 1948. And yes, the two airplanes were 41-31856 and 41-35075.