Y1B-17 Seeking details

[TonyM]

My best B-17 picture ref book has soooooo many errors when it comes to the early forts, I don't even want to name it's publisher!! (I'd rather not get sued!)

HoleDigger,

Maybe you ought to name that title with all the B-17 errors so it can be checked against the historical record. It won't get you sued for you to reveal the title.

I'd be really interested to know and also future historians and enthusiasts will be warned that this title contains the errors.

TonyM.

[Holedigger]

Even my book has it as only one A model, it is mostly the pictures that are labeled poorly. I have not found the specific serial for #61 of the 64th BS yet but it appears to be a Y1B-17. The "A" was of the first batch of 13 built but it was to be used for stress/structure testing but then turned into a testbed for engine/turbo mods and other experiments. I should learn not to work too late into the night, I start screwing up my facts and typing!

Second Air Force: thanks for the pic, I hadn't seen this one of the bird I am working up, though it does raise a question. The marking source I am using called for red cowling rings.....HMMMMMMMM, rungs sure don't look red in this pic. Also a 61 and squadron logo on nose. No aerial mast or loop antenna. Same plane? Any ideas? I think the kept changing them up to confuse people!!! With no serials on them, it makes them hard to differentiate!

[TonyM]

I am illustrating what I think is a Y1B-17, #61 of the 96th BS,and I don't think it was the one and only A?

According to my reference books, there was only one YB-17A.

That was 37-369.

See:

B-17 IN ACTION
by Larry Davis

B-17 FLYING FORTRESS
In Detail and Scale
By Alwyn T. Lloyd

THE B-17 FLYING FORTRESS STORY
By Roger Freeman

FLYING FORTS
by Martin Caidin

FLYING FORTRESS
by Edward Jablonski

B-17 FORTRESS AT WAR
by Roger Freeman

All of these books say that there was only one YB-17A. They could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Also, you cannot be sued by a publisher if you point out an error in one of its books. I am a published aviation author and I point out errors in books I reveiw on line all the time. You can even call out an author by name if you find an error. It will not get you sued. It is part of the process.

And Joe Baugher's excellent AAF serial number website lists only one YB-17A.

If you have reference to the contrary, please post it for all of us to see.

Thanks.

Tony M.

Also see

BOMBERS IN ACTION
Great American Bombers in World War Two

Armed Forces Series, Volume 2, 1993
Michael O'Leary et al
Challenge Publications

[Holedigger]

The book that has been more grief than help is the 1973 printing of B-17's in action by Squadron Signal Pub. They only give two pages to the early forts and the generalization is a bit sloppy, and the drawings of the different models even more so. They don't even mention the Y1B designation, none of the drawings show turbo's until the "C" model (didn't the "A and B" have them?!?, don't have carb scoops on the engine on the YB-17, none have the oversized prop spinners...just sloppy.....ah the little things that send me in little circles !

[TonyM]

I have a 1984 version of that one and, like yours, it has two pages of Y1B-17 info on it. I agree, the work could use more photos, but the text is generally correct.

The early Y1B-17 photos are hard to find, but I suspect that they are out there.

You want to look at book titled:

B-17 FLYING FORTRESS
In Detail and Scale
by Alwyn T. Lloyd

On page 16 appears four photos of the YB-17A. One photo shows the airplane with the turbos mounted on the top of the nacelles; one photo of the airplane with the turbos apparently mounted on the bottom of the nacelles. There are two photos of the under nacelle mounted turbos; one shows the outboard nacelle with turbo and scoops, the other photo shows the inboard nacelle with turbo (Boeing Photo Number 13580). Correction: Photo 13580 is not YB-17A--Caption reads that it is the supercharger that is used "on all versions after the YB-17A." The photo number gives it away as a B-17C photo. Sorry.

TonyM.

[Holedigger]

Thanks Tony, I'll have to keep my eye out for that one. Haven't bought a lot of books lately (my art barely covers printing costs, just keeps me off the streets at night!) Did the "A" ever get assigned to a squadron? The few shots I have seen of it have rather sparse markings. I am looking at doing an entire series of the 17 models (got plenty of G's, couple F's), the search and rescue with the lifeboat attached might be interesting! Probably jump to the Swoose next as there are at least photos available on her!!

[TonyM]

The book FLYING FORTS by Martin Caidin has photos of the Y1B-17 and YB-17A:

One photo of a Y1B-17 that nosed over in an accident due to locked brakes; the other photo is of the YB-17A with turbos mounted on top.

Good luck with your research.

TonyM.

[Holedigger]

The one that "stuffed" it's nose, was that the first Y1B-17 fresh from Boeing making it's grand entrance for the Air Corps brass? Not the best way to impress people!! This after 299 stalled, crashed and burned. As the country was still in depression and these were very expensive, cutting edge aircraft in 1936/37, it must have been quite a feat of salesmanship (and or lobbying) to get any built! True that the distant rumblings of war were getting some people's attention, but that was not the concern of the US populace, FDR was going to keep us out of any of that nonsense!

[Second Air Force]

Holedigger,

The photo of ship #61 I posted on page one was from the 2nd Bombardment Group Historical File and the caption on one of the shots states that it was the first formation flight of 2nd BG Fortresses. The cowl trim and antenna fitment were added after this photo I would think.

Scott

[Holedigger]

Kind of what I was thinking. Looks like they played around quite a bit with the antenna placement on those early birds. Trying to find out what worked best or just keeping up with the swiftly changing technology? Radios in AC was a fairly new thing (and heavy!!!!!)

[Holedigger]

Slowly coming along. Hunting details on the bits and pieces. Still looking for dorsal and ventral (top and bottom) gun blister detail pics as well as tail wheel detail. These were so very different from the later versions which are so much more familiar. Here is a snapshot of the side blister (I think I'm about done with it unless some more detail shows up to change my mind)

[Jesse C.]

Holedigger, send me your addy and you can have my IPMS journal with the build up of this plane in it.

The builder used jet canopies to make the blisters and totally detailed the interior.

[Holedigger]

Cool! Thanks Jesse! Have I said today how cool a place WIX is?!?

[Second Air Force]

Holedigger, PM sent.

Scott

[Holedigger]

Well, mostly done with this, just nit picking on rivets and little bits. Thanks to you all for the help, pics and site suggestions.