about the Pacific war

[airnutz]

Nathan may be interested to learn that there was war in the Pacific long before Pearl Harbou,

Do Tell??


It's Pearl Harbor to us Dave..you are encouraged at any time to join us and learn our history....

[Nathan]

Dave,

I ment early U.S. combat engagments.

Oh, well then you meant mid-WWII, not early.

I know when WWII was started...when Germany invade Poland in 1939. I am not ingnorant just that I ment the early battles for the United States i.e. Pearl, Wake, Midway, Doolittle. To me 1941-1942 is still the early parts of the war....dang didnt know I would get blasted as some dumb kid. I just feel alittle insulted but, oh well. I appreciate your corrections Dave just I think we misunderstood each other.


My original post was made after being up for several days so my writting was inpaired a bit. Had I been more awake I woulda taken more time to make sure it was more knowledgable other the the half fast job that I did. Just seemed to me that WIX as been under the radar lately and I wanted to try and make an interesting thread in hope that it gained some interest for the Pacific...a forgotten part of the war if you ask me.

I am 22 years old living in a hick town of Pennsylvania. Not many people around here are into warbirds. I can name ya just about every USAAC pilot that got airborn on Oahu of December 7th 1941. Not bad for a 22 year, eh?

[Dave Homewood]

I don't really understand why some of you have taken my perfectly genuine comments and attempts to offer corrections to factual errors as some sort of cue to start a slanging match. Is this friendly banter or genuine aggressiveness? I can never tell on this forum, threads so often degenerate into fights so it's hard to tell amd I generally try to keep out of it.

Nathan, I was not calling you a dumb kid. I had no idea how old you were till Forgotten Field made it sound like you're quite young. When I was 22 I was serving in the Royal New Zealand Air Force but even then I didn't know half of what I do now about the history of my air force. Life is all about learning, and I apologise that you were offended mate.

Forgetful or ignorant?

Neither forgetful, nor ignorant...if you keep Nathans statement within the context of the US official entry into the fray.

Nathan's statements was:

As some of you know my main interest of WWII reflects the Pacific Theater and early WWII stuff. I am not sure why the Europe war seems to get more attension.

That makes no mention of the "US official entry into the fray". I feel that my comment about the early war air battles being in Europe is entirely justified in the context that it read. Anyway, it's all sorted now, Nathan knows what he's talking about.

Dave Homewood wrote:
Nathan may be interested to learn that there was war in the Pacific long before Pearl Harbou,

Do Tell??

I've already mentioned the German navy raiders that were sinking Allied shipping around NZ, Australia and Fiji, etc. It was very real war, people died, people were captured, ships and cargoes were lost, navies and air forces were engaged with the hunt. We had a lot of troopship convoys crossing the Look up the Pacific to Canada where many of our airmen finished their training before going to Europe, and we had troopships full of men heading for North Afric and England. Some of those ships were civil liners too, and a lot of neutral American passengers were tripping around the Pacific on ships that also carried our troops, both on business and on holidays. Not to mention our naval ships that belonged then to the New Zealand Division of the Royal Navy - and from July 1941 to the RNZN. One of the ships that was prominent in protecting our shipping in the Pacific Ocean was the HMNZS Achilles, famous for its role in helping to sink the Graf Spee in the famous Battle of the River Plate.

As for the German raiders, there are several books about it. The German Navy engaged in the same principles in WWI (1914-1918) in the Pacific by the way, trying to sink our ships. In 1939-41 there were dozens of genuine sightings of these raiders off the NZ coast but our aircraft never caught up with them. They were very elusive and would disguise themselves as other ships, etc.

There was even a German Battleship spotted heading for the Pacific from the Indian Ocean in 1940. I don't know what it was doing though. I believe there was also some German U-boat activity in the Pacific in WWII too before the Japanese entered the war and took over their sectors, but I am not sure if they sunk anything.

It's Pearl Harbor to us Dave..

Yes, I know. That was a typing error on my part. I wrote it correctly as Harbour, then rememebred you lot spell it differently so I went back to delete one of the letters and somehow backspaced the wrong one. Hey ho...

you are encouraged at any time to join us and learn our history....

I know a fair bit of US history as it happens, probably a darn sight more then you know of New Zealand's history. But I'm always willing to learn more though. I'm especially very keen to know more about US-NZ air force co-operation in the Pacific. Both our fighters and bombers used to fly in the same formations as US ones on raids on places like Rabaul, etc. I even have a few photos of NZ and US fighters together. I know some of our RNZAF mechanics were also often called in to solve mechanical problems found with US aircraft (our aircraft engineers were much more highly trained than those of the US Forces and the latter had a huge respect for the NZ airmen and their abilities). I know of social stories and stories of life in the camps too where the two cultures met, and also that some US aircraft were based here in NZ (including your beloved B-17 Swoose for a while). But any stories or photos of US-NZ co-operation would be great.

[Walrus 7]

Australia's greatest maritime disaster, the loss of HMAS Sydney occured on 18 November 1941, three-odd weeks before Pearl Harbour (Harbor). That happened just off the coast of Western Australia, so there certainly was a war in the Pacific from early on.

Gentlemen, I put it to you that WWII started on 28 June 1919. On that day, Germany signed the terribly punitive Treaty of Versailles, which made WWII inevitable. It just took another 20 years for the shooting to start.

Walrus

[airnutz]

Gentlemen, I put it to you that WWII started on 28 June 1919. On that day, Germany signed the terribly punitive Treaty of Versailles

Thank-you Walrus 7! After I signed off last night I realized I should have pointed that out, as well.

Wars rarely begin with contemporary origins..the impending conflict festers for generations.

[Steve Nelson]

I would say the stage was originally set sometime around 50,000 B.C. when Ogg bashed Urk over the head with a rock so he could steal his woman, and Urk's brother Ekk swore revenge.

Basically, people have been fighting people as long as there have been people. The seeds of almost every war are planted in previous wars.

SN

[airnutz]

True Dave, Nathan made no mention of the "official" or formal entry of the US into the World War, but as an American-based forum, I understood the "shorthand" of his statement based upon the context he was speaking.

I felt your correction was a "wee bit" condescending in tone at the time..No Worries though..

You made a similar statement to me a few weeks back and I replied, "It's actually a matter of perspective."...And IIRC, "Who's war?"

Apologies if I came off a bit rough, Amigo!

[airnutz]

I would say the stage was originally set sometime around 50,000 B.C. when Ogg bashed Urk over the head with a rock so he could steal his woman, and Urk's brother Ekk swore revenge.

Basically, people have been fighting people as long as there have been people. The seeds of almost every war are planted in previous wars.

SN

Well..I was trying to keep this contained to the past 500 years or less..WHEW ..50K years, this is gonna be a loooong thread!

[Nathan]

I don't really understand why some of you have taken my perfectly genuine comments and attempts to offer corrections to factual errors as some sort of cue to start a slanging match. Is this friendly banter or genuine aggressiveness? I can never tell on this forum, threads so often degenerate into fights so it's hard to tell amd I generally try to keep out of it.

Nathan, I was not calling you a dumb kid. I had no idea how old you were till Forgotten Field made it sound like you're quite young. When I was 22 I was serving in the Royal New Zealand Air Force but even then I didn't know half of what I do now about the history of my air force. Life is all about learning, and I apologise that you were offended mate.

Forgetful or ignorant?

Neither forgetful, nor ignorant...if you keep Nathans statement within the context of the US official entry into the fray.

Nathan's statements was:

As some of you know my main interest of WWII reflects the Pacific Theater and early WWII stuff. I am not sure why the Europe war seems to get more attension.

That makes no mention of the "US official entry into the fray". I feel that my comment about the early war air battles being in Europe is entirely justified in the context that it read. Anyway, it's all sorted now, Nathan knows what he's talking about.

Dave Homewood wrote:
Nathan may be interested to learn that there was war in the Pacific long before Pearl Harbou,

Do Tell??

I've already mentioned the German navy raiders that were sinking Allied shipping around NZ, Australia and Fiji, etc. It was very real war, people died, people were captured, ships and cargoes were lost, navies and air forces were engaged with the hunt. We had a lot of troopship convoys crossing the Look up the Pacific to Canada where many of our airmen finished their training before going to Europe, and we had troopships full of men heading for North Afric and England. Some of those ships were civil liners too, and a lot of neutral American passengers were tripping around the Pacific on ships that also carried our troops, both on business and on holidays. Not to mention our naval ships that belonged then to the New Zealand Division of the Royal Navy - and from July 1941 to the RNZN. One of the ships that was prominent in protecting our shipping in the Pacific Ocean was the HMNZS Achilles, famous for its role in helping to sink the Graf Spee in the famous Battle of the River Plate.

As for the German raiders, there are several books about it. The German Navy engaged in the same principles in WWI (1914-1918) in the Pacific by the way, trying to sink our ships. In 1939-41 there were dozens of genuine sightings of these raiders off the NZ coast but our aircraft never caught up with them. They were very elusive and would disguise themselves as other ships, etc.

There was even a German Battleship spotted heading for the Pacific from the Indian Ocean in 1940. I don't know what it was doing though. I believe there was also some German U-boat activity in the Pacific in WWII too before the Japanese entered the war and took over their sectors, but I am not sure if they sunk anything.

It's Pearl Harbor to us Dave..

Yes, I know. That was a typing error on my part. I wrote it correctly as Harbour, then rememebred you lot spell it differently so I went back to delete one of the letters and somehow backspaced the wrong one. Hey ho...

you are encouraged at any time to join us and learn our history....

I know a fair bit of US history as it happens, probably a darn sight more then you know of New Zealand's history. But I'm always willing to learn more though. I'm especially very keen to know more about US-NZ air force co-operation in the Pacific. Both our fighters and bombers used to fly in the same formations as US ones on raids on places like Rabaul, etc. I even have a few photos of NZ and US fighters together. I know some of our RNZAF mechanics were also often called in to solve mechanical problems found with US aircraft (our aircraft engineers were much more highly trained than those of the US Forces and the latter had a huge respect for the NZ airmen and their abilities). I know of social stories and stories of life in the camps too where the two cultures met, and also that some US aircraft were based here in NZ (including your beloved B-17 Swoose for a while). But any stories or photos of US-NZ co-operation would be great.

No problem Dave. We just saw things at a different perspective.

[Dave Homewood]

Earlier in this thread I stated that the RNZAF did not operate in Papua New Guinea. I have been doign some reading and for the first time I have read/discovered that the island of New Britain, which I'd always believed to be an independent island of its own, is in fact a state of New Guinea. The RNZAF did of course make numerous attacks against Japanese held positions on New Britain, and very late in the war were based at Rabaul and Jacquinot Bay on the island.

So my apologies if I put anyone crook. I had no idea New Britain was part of PNG till tonight. And when PNG was mentioned I was thinkign in terms of the large landmass of PNG and not the islands around it. Sorry if I have confused anyone any more tha I confused myself.

[Dan Newcomb]

I’m just glad folks are still discussing WWII. We should never forget it. The other day I was talking to a man when I suddenly remembered that it was June 6th. I mentioned the fact that it was D-Day. He said, happy birthday Dan! I followed that statement with a history lesson. Sad.

Dan

[dred]

Australia's greatest maritime disaster, the loss of HMAS Sydney occured on 18 November 1941, three-odd weeks before Pearl Harbour (Harbor). That happened just off the coast of Western Australia, so there certainly was a war in the Pacific from early on.

Gentlemen, I put it to you that WWII started on 28 June 1919. On that day, Germany signed the terribly punitive Treaty of Versailles, which made WWII inevitable. It just took another 20 years for the shooting to start.

Walrus

WWII itself is a vast subject, but after reading a couple of books on WWI, I'm inclined to consider them as one enormous conflict that happened to have a 20 year intermission in the middle.