Just a bit low?

[PinecastleAAF]

I once commented to a friend after an airshow like this one about a couple of his low passes just like this P-51 and he told me " An inch is as good as a mile".

It stuck in my mind.

.

[Pat M]

That's definately the Baranaskas Mustang.........with Snort flying?

[warbirdguy]

Yup!

Last edited by warbirdguy on Tue May 20, 2008 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

[warbird1]

That's just par for the course for Snort. He's been known to do some pretty low flying for many, many years. This infamous picture of the F-14 doing a flyby of a carrier in 1989 is none other than Snort himself.




Somewhere on the internet, I forget where, there is video of Snort flying between two telephone polls during an airshow when he was demoing the F-86.

[Matt Gunsch]

no one has ever broken the record for a low pass, only tied it.
Low passes like that leave no room for error, and the average airshow watcher would not know the difference between a 100ft pass, and a 200ft.

[T-6G Pilot]

no one has ever broken the record for a low pass, only tied it.
Low passes like that leave no room for error, and the average airshow watcher would not know the difference between a 100ft pass, and a 200ft.

Agreed. Easy to take unnecessary risks when its not your airplane as well.

[k5083]

I agree with you last two guys. It's all very well to say he has the skills to do it, until one day we find out he doesn't.

August

[mustangdriver]

I got to go with you last three as well. Low passes are cool, but this is pushing what is safe.

[RickH]

No offense guys, but Snort has an unlimited altitude ACE card. I would expect that the ACE who recerts Snort is better qualified to make the decision on what is safe for this particular pilot. Not to say that people don't have bad days and can't screw up but the ACE card was set up to evaluate performers skills on an annual basis.

[ALAN.L]

Unfortunately you cannot come back and wave that in the face of the issuer when you have just gone down the runway in a ball of chalk.......

[Matt Gunsch]

No offense guys, but Snort has an unlimited altitude ACE card. I would expect that the ACE who recerts Snort is better qualified to make the decision on what is safe for this particular pilot. Not to say that people don't have bad days and can't screw up but the ACE card was set up to evaluate performers skills on an annual basis.

He has a ACE card, but what about the plane ? He may be able to do that, but all it takes is one hiccup from the plane and he is in trouble, or one second of inattention or distraction.

a pass that low only those in the front of the crowd can see it, where a pass at 100 ft most in the crowd can see it.

My mentor Carl was a ACE Evaluator, he issued the cards, and he had a medical and went in, a card does not make you invincable.

I find it kind of funny, those on here that know nothing about formation flying scream when there is a accident, yet when those that are doing the flying and fixing on the planes point out what we feel is a unsafe practice, we get jumped. hmmmmmm

[gary1954]

Matt, probably spot on with that one ole man! I found when I was fortunate to ride in a formation flight of Hueys' that I was tense just being in the formation, because I didn't know the proficiency of the "other" pilots. I was always comfotable with "our" pilots, as they handled "our" Hueys' like they were an extension of their arms.. .no matter to what extream we were acused of "hotdoggin' " our sense of being safe was not a false sense of Safety . With these old aircraft, "our" Warbirds...and I say "Our Warbirds", because all of us here, actually "care" about each and every airframe that is recovered or waiting to be restored, whether or not it's our favorite, each is "ours". Our Heritage makes them "ours", and I appreciate each and every owner or group that do own and maintain these flying machines.....It would be Cool to see formation flights of Warbirds.. ..I think on the side of safety it would be great if every warbird pilot was qualified to fly Formation. Look at all of the B-17s that are flyable and going to be in the near future. Can you imagine the sight and sound of a minimum of 16 B-17s in the air in a combat box formation..not seen since WWII....now that! would be way Cool

I agree with all the above as well, "Snort" will turn into "short" as in "short timer" if this is his signature. personally I get no thrill in seeing someone take that kind of risk. ... So let's assume this guy is the best pilot in the world (and I've met the man, seems a nice guy) and no one can fly better than he can, who the h*ll cares?, he's taking risks and assuming he has a perfect airplane. I can be the best Architect on the planet and still get in trouble because a contractor didn't build my design the way I wanted him to. The fellow flies an F-14 that close and that low and he naturally assumes his crew chief maintained everything on his airplane perfectly? I don't think so. That's a very arrogent way to live your life and expose others to your reckless way of life as well. How would you like it if you brought your kids to an airshow and exposed them to a pilot who thought he was a hotshot and killed himself in front of your family. I'd be pissed. Reminds me of the POF airshow last year. My girl and I were sitting in the VIP tent and Steve Hinton came taxing up fast in Glacier Girl, he cut the engines and came up fast and hit the breaks right in front of the tent. If those breaks didn't work, he would have crashed into our laps. I thought it was a fun thing at the time, but he scared all the women who were sitting there in the tent. What he did was a "guy thing" but not very smart for the people who are not used to those stunts. Steve Hinton IS probably the best warbird pilot on the planet, but even Steve has no idea if his breaks could give out. 60+ year old airplanes, and you can assume you can fly them anyway you want? ... Not a chance in h*ll. And this IS NO bashing on anyone personally as a great pilot or person, just a few questionable judgement calls. When someone gets hurt or killed by your bad judgement, there is very little that can be said about how great a pilot you are.

Seeing Snort that low is a common occurence. The way I see it, he's in his element, and if his skills enable him to fly that way safely, so be it

.

What do you see safe about flying that low in a 60+ year old, high performance aircraft that you have very little knowledge about it's maintainance and seem not to care about the impact you would have on the poor folks who witness your selfish fireball pyrotechnics if you crashed?, beside nothing? ... that's what I thought.

I once commented to a friend after an airshow like this one about a couple of his low passes just like this P-51 and he told me " An inch is as good as a mile".

It stuck in my mind.

Yep! ... just like " 6 feet under is as good as 6 feet under"

Last edited by Hellcat on Tue May 20, 2008 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[warbird1]

no one has ever broken the record for a low pass, only tied it.
Low passes like that leave no room for error, and the average airshow watcher would not know the difference between a 100ft pass, and a 200ft.

Agreed. Easy to take unnecessary risks when its not your airplane as well.

I have to agree with the majority here as well. It doesn't matter how well a pilot's skill's are, sometimes there are forces beyond one's control - low level turbulence, downdrafts, jetwash/wake turbulence, bird strike, a split second of pilot distraction, etc, etc. Being that low really limits your options if you encounter such unexpected conditions. How many supposed "expert low-level pilots" have crashed as a direct result of low altitude aerobatics or maneuvering? The list includes:

Mark Hanna
Jim Leroy
Wayne Handley
Nancy Lynn
The numerous Mig/Sukoi crashes at nearly every single aviation trade show in the 80's and 90's (being facetious here)
The latest - Rob Harrison, appears to have crashed due to insufficient altitude, if witnesses are to be believed. The jury is still out on this one.

There are many, many others that I'm leaving out, but the point is, it doesn't matter what your experience level or pilot skills are, eventually it will catch up to you. There are some situations where it just doesn't make sense to fly that low. Flying low in combat for a specific purpose to survive is one thing, flying low at an airshow where only the front row of spectators can see you and being able to brag about it at the post-airshow BBQ is entirely another.

My 2 cents worth.

[Mike]

How many supposed "expert low-level pilots" have crashed as a direct result of low altitude aerobatics or maneuvering? The list includes:

Mark Hanna

While I wouldn't disagree with the main thrust of your comment, I should point out that Mark's accident happened while he was coming in to land. Nothing whatsoever to do with "low altitude aerobatics or maneuvering"