Ruff Stuff to visit LSFM airshow

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

Dan K wrote:

gunnyperdue wrote:

I doubt that POF will bring 23 Skidoo to Osh....

gunny

Skidoo was at OSH in either 2005 or '06, so never say "never".

And long before that in a previous scheme.

gunnyperdue · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:16 pm

Mike Bates wrote:

Taken July 1964.

And taken during the war.

If someone whats a copy of these to pass along to owner or family member give me your email and I'll email you quality files.

Mike

Mike-

I counted Norb as a very good friend before he passed away last December... I am still friends with his son and I think he would love to see those files! Send 'em to me and I'll get them to him.

gunny

gunnyperdue · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:21 pm

warbird1 wrote:

Excellent! That will be fun!

Any chance you might be able to bring a digital camera and take some pictures from the cockpit while you make your cross-country jaunt? That plus a trip report on what it's like to fly the P-38 across the country would make an extremely interesting post here! Other than you, I don't believe we've had anybody give any first hand reports of flying the P-38 since the formation of this forum!

I could probably do that... I did post a few months ago what it was like to check out in the airplane...

gunny

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:01 pm

The P-38 looks great, there were some years when there just seemed to be few on the circuit. I took a look at a pilot manual for one recently. Man it was a little scary, at least to a small airplane pilot like myself. I don't have a twin rating and only a little multi time, but the manual was very frank, can't quote it exactly but it said with gear down, and/or flaps it will not maintain level flight on one engine. I think the speed given was either 120 or 150 knots, anyway pretty fast for someone used to a Spitfire. My short final speed solo is 80k, I try to begin final about 90k. The P-38 manual seemed very detailed and well written. A pilot, especially a low time one would need to really study it to fly it safely and certainly to be ready to mix it with some hot shot in a Zero.
I also looked at a B-25 manual to see how good a simulator it would be for a 38, and I was surprised to find the speeds comparable I think, only had a brief look.

gunnyperdue · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:08 pm

Bill Greenwood wrote:

The P-38 looks great, there were some years when there just seemed to be few on the circuit. I took a look at a pilot manual for one recently. Man it was a little scary, at least to a small airplane pilot like myself. I don't have a twin rating and only a little multi time, but the manual was very frank, can't quote it exactly but it said with gear down, and/or flaps it will not maintain level flight on one engine. I think the speed given was either 120 or 150 knots, anyway pretty fast for someone used to a Spitfire. My short final speed solo is 80k, I try to begin final about 90k. The P-38 manual seemed very detailed and well written. A pilot, especially a low time one would need to really study it to fly it safely and certainly to be ready to mix it with some hot shot in a Zero.
I also looked at a B-25 manual to see how good a simulator it would be for a 38, and I was surprised to find the speeds comparable I think, only had a brief look.

Bill-

One thing about twin flying... there are corners that you just have to accept the fact the other engine may kill you instead of saving your life... in the early days of WWII they didn't give the guys much training at all... killed a lot of guys.... as for the manuals... they are... err... concise...

gunny

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:18 pm

Gunny, do you or anybody know what kind of training the most pilots had before going into the 38 during the war? Am I wrong that it was reguarded as more of a fighter than a twin, and guys would go into their first flight in the 38 without multi time. I am fairly sure they did not have B-25 time, or did the have Bamboo Bomber or something similar?
By the way, I have one P-38 landing, at least one in the simulator at Oskosh. I have no idea how accurate it is. I didn't get any briefing, no idea of stall speed, approach speed, power setteings etc. I did manage to find Fon du Lac and get it down and stopped on the runway, but think it may need a brake change if not main tire change after that.

gunnyperdue · **Posted:** Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:24 pm

Bill Greenwood wrote:

Gunny, do you or anybody know what kind of training the most pilots had before going into the 38 during the war? Am I wrong that it was reguarded as more of a fighter than a twin, and guys would go into their first flight in the 38 without multi time. I am fairly sure they did not have B-25 time, or did the have Bamboo Bomber or something similar?
By the way, I have one P-38 landing, at least one in the simulator at Oskosh. I have no idea how accurate it is. I didn't get any briefing, no idea of stall speed, approach speed, power setteings etc. I did manage to find Fon du Lac and get it down and stopped on the runway, but think it may need a brake change if not main tire change after that.

Late in the war guys would fly the P-40 and then do some twin time then do a piggy back ride in the airplane... then solo it... then go through 100 hours of training in all aspects of flying it... early in the war guys like Norb would basically be thrown into the airplane in a rear area with minimal brief--- go fly it.... then with maybe 5 hours they'd head for the front.... yahoo...

It is not a bad lander... plenty of runway to let it slow down without much brake at FDL....

different times...

gunny

Bill Greenwood · **Posted:** Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:51 am

I recall reading a combat intel, I think it may have been by Dick Bong. It was how to fight a Zero with a P-38. The whole idea was to keep your speed up, I think he said 280 to 300 indicated. Never try to fight at the Zero's best speed below 200, and never, double never try to loop with a Zero. If attacked and you had speed you might evade with a high spped climb. The trick was to open the distance in a shallow climb before he got in firing range, not as such to climb at a steep angle. The ideal was to get the Zero to make a head on attack, but I'll bet none of the better Japanese pilots tried that too often.

airnutz · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:06 am

GunnyP...Can you share where you'll approach Galveston from tomorrow? West shoreline
of the Bay, or inland? Got an idea of ETA? I hope the weather doesn't affect you too much! Blue skies...

Steve S · **Posted:** Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:45 pm

shes already here. Came in about noon today. Not sure if she is flying tomorow but you can certinaly come down and see her on the ground.

Steve S

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