Immaculate Japanese Zero found in Solomons

[Mudge]

Bill...I agree with all of your above statement except for:

They murdered not only hundreds of thousands of Allied prisoners...

I can't find any records that indicate that the "Japanese" had more than about 150-160,000 allied prisoners and almost 75% of those were repatriated.

Mudge the researcher

[sdennison]

I strongly disagree about the term Japanese instead of Japanese. I don't see much difference. It is not an insult to call one a Brit instead of British, a Yank for U. S. and I assume an Aussie instead of the longer term. Why should the Japanese be different? Are they ashamed of who they are?
Let's say they are ashamed, or trying to be someone else. I don't give a dammn what their national fragility is, and I mean exactly that. For much of the last century they have been one the cruelest and most barbaric nations in history. They murdered not only hundreds of thousands of Allied prisoners, but also millions of civilians. They were brutal to their own people in training, as far as I know their current legal system is punitive with the individual second to the state ( I am not expert on this part). I have read they dismiss their part in the war, don't teach it in school, and they have certainly not made formal apologies and restitution for their crimes.
If they are ashamed of who they were/are they deserve that shame. I don't think it is racist to detest them for looking or being different , but for what they did and stood for.

OK, so my ride in the back seat is out. Bill, feel better now? What kind of moronic attitude is this you are demonstrating? Zo, ve should alzo refer to each Cherman as ein Kraut? Get with reality Dude! I think the altitude is leaving you with a lean oxygen mixture. Watch for detonation...

You never fought the war and do not deserve the right to refer to any of the nationalities by their war time slang. You, like I, are second generation "warriors". I respect my Dad's position as he was part of it and felt the emotions up close and personal. That does not give me the right to continue his feelings nor free me of the obligation to make up my own mind.

Are you an American Pig Dog? Should the rest of the world continue to look at you for what the Americans did during the war? The war was brutal and each side did what was necessary at the time based on their objectives. We lost, they lost. Hopefully, we are all smarter for the past. Continuing your attitude and philosophy gets us no where and makes you look a bit...well

[muddyboots]

here is a no Sh** story: When I was stationed in Korea in the 90's, we used to go climbing on an Island named Cheju off the coast of Pusan (the Army had a climbing school tehre). There was absolutely an old Japanese airstrip, complete with concrete hangars and all, and inside the hangars were the remains of a bunch of old Japanese warbirds, including at least one in good enough condition to climb into and sit in the old rotted out seat. The Koreans had a fit when they found out we'd been there, as they are still pretty crazy about the Japanese invasion. They wouldn't explain why it hadn't been destroyed, just abandoned and then kept off limits to everyone.

As far as I know, those remains are still there.

Don't mean to be a dilweed here Muddy and I understand the use of the word as my father fought in CBI, maybe now we could evolve to the use of the word Japanese rather than Japanese. Not a PC guy necessarily but I have many Japanese friends and associates and IMHO, that term belongs in history.

I undersdtand your perspective, but have never really thought of it as an indult as much as a shortening of it. Calling someone of the Jewish persuasion a jew isn't necessarily an insult, and I sort of think of it the same way> But I am willing to be lectured about it lol!

BTW, I have dated several Japanese women, and heard them use the term themselves. I never stopped to ask myself if it wasn't like black people use the -N- word, but I would hope not.

[JDK]

OK, so my ride in the back seat is out. Bill, feel better now? What kind of moronic attitude is this you are demonstrating? Zo, ve should alzo refer to each Cherman as ein Kraut? Get with reality Dude! I think the altitude is leaving you with a lean oxygen mixture. Watch for detonation...

You or Bill may have justification for the views, but your post's a bit rich in tone, IMHO. Feel free to convince by rational argument rather than getting personal, hmmm?

We are also well off topic and wandering into the polarised opinion mindfield. Let's keep it where it should be.

On which note, I'd love to see pics, and I agree with Randy's post regarding the Zero construction; but it wouldn't be the first time another Japanese fighter was misidentified. I'm not holding my breath, it is (theoretically) possible.

The whole 'Zero' thing is a bit odd too. I tried to buy a spoof toy called 'Invisible Jim'. When the shop assistant told me there were none left, I asked him how he was sure...

http://www.gizmoandwidget.com/index.php ... ucts_id=93

[sdennison]

Muddy, my friend, an honest response. No lecture Dude, just an observation and only an expression of my opinion. This could be part of the disconnect of generations. My point is only that we should be "internationally" aware of our racial and national stereotypes and not promote old attitudes and feelings.

Thank you for your response.

[rwdfresno]

You never fought the war and do not deserve the right to refer to any of the nationalities by their war time slang. You, like I, are second generation "warriors". I respect my Dad's position as he was part of it and felt the emotions up close and personal. That does not give me the right to continue his feelings nor free me of the obligation to make up my own mind.

Well the term predated WWII by a hundred years or more. Up until WWII Japanese American people frequently used it even in referring to themselves. The term took a derogatory connotation during WWII and some Japanese fell this exists today. Personally, I think it is PC BS and I think that if you let people have power over you simply by the name they call you then you probably don't feel that great about yourself to begin with.

As for his rights, I think you really take away from what these heroes have done by stating that they have earned any more rights than the citizens of this great country that they defend. They sacrifice so that WE SHALL REMAIN FREE. And that freedom includes the freedom of speech. Political correctness is a direct assault on that freedom.

Alright this white bread, cracker is getting tired so I'm going to take my dumb dago WOP self to bed.

Ryan the honky

Last edited by rwdfresno on Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[sdennison]

OK, so my ride in the back seat is out. Bill, feel better now? What kind of moronic attitude is this you are demonstrating? Zo, ve should alzo refer to each Cherman as ein Kraut? Get with reality Dude! I think the altitude is leaving you with a lean oxygen mixture. Watch for detonation...

You or Bill may have justification for the views, but your post's a bit rich in tone, IMHO. Feel free to convince by rational argument rather than getting personal, hmmm?

We are also well off topic and wandering into the polarised opinion mindfield. Let's keep it where it should be.

On which note, I'd love to see pics, and I agree with Randy's post regarding the Zero construction; but it wouldn't be the first time another Japanese fighter was misidentified. I'm not holding my breath, it is (theoretically) possible.

The whole 'Zero' thing is a bit odd too. I tried to buy a spoof toy called 'Invisible Jim'. When the shop assistant told me there were none left, I asked him how he was sure...

http://www.gizmoandwidget.com/index.php ... ucts_id=93

Right you are. Should not have diverted the original thread. It would really be cool to find some vintage aircraft hidden in caves of the past.

[muddyboots]

Didn't take it as a lecture--I expect you know me well enough by now to see that I can take a finger wagging. You've seen me rant about racism etc. before, so I'm pretty sure you know I dislike bigots. In that light, to point out I'm using a "nasty word" when I don't really know I am--I see that as something a friend would do, not a dillweed

Last edited by muddyboots on Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Bill Greenwood]

Sdenison: I don't have to fight in a war in order to have an opinion, just as you have your opinion, and while I strongly disagree with yours, I have not referred to it or you as "moronic". Do you have any facts to support your insults? Did I misstate what the Japanese did? As for your friends, my next door neighbor is Japanese, I am polite to them.
As I said using Japanese instead or the longer term should not be incorrect. But if it is, I don't care because as a govt., as an army, as a country Japan has earned and deserves any shame given to them. AND UNLIKE OTHERS THEY HAVE DONE LITTLE SINCE THE WAR TO RIGHT ANY WRONGS. As far as I can see, their only real regret was that they lost. Am I wrong? Has there been any movement, any call in Japan for them to face and atone for their past? If so it must be pretty small and pretty quiet.
Of course as a nation or as individuals we in the U S have made mistakes; the treatment of Indians, slavery, racisism, the current torture of prisoners. But I think the average person here regrets and disagrees with these things. I have heard a number of Germans disavow Hitler and the Nazis.
Mudge, I could be way off on my numbers of prisoners killed, but I have yet to read of anything other than bad treatment by Japanese. Do you have any figures of the survival rates between Allies under the Japanese and the Germans?
PS A few months back when I wrote that we might have tried harder for peace before using the Atomic Bomb, there were a lot of guys on WIX all for cremating Japanese, civilian or not.

[Bill Greenwood]

A couple of relevant books from Google: PRISONERS OF THE JAPANESE, BY Gwan Daves and HORRORS OF THE EAST by Lawrence Rees. I haven't read them but I'd bet the worst thing in them is not use of a slang term.

[ausflyboy]

It may be true !!!! On my last visit to the solomans I was told of several "zeros" in caves around the island chain..whether or not it is true I don't know....never checked out the veracity of the story as I didn't have time..but I was a party to verifying other significant so called "B*LLS**T" claims that I had heard from people about equipment dumped in semi underground hangers and such..and they were true!!!!
The main problem is that some items the Soloman islanders mentioned that were "good or as new" condition turned out to be twisted pieces of unrecognisable junk or mouldy corroded components.

Meanwhile back in OZ a well respected warbird restorer showed me pics of a Japanese Zero in a cave that he found back in the mid 90's in PNG ...admittedly it was less than pristine condition but much much better condition than the other stuff we see come out of the islands and (with the right money) is an excellent candidate for airworthy restoration. The location and name of said prominant restorer has been kept out of this post, out of respect for the person who calls it his "retirement" fund. Members in Oz may figure out who said person is if they know of him or know him

Anyway, the reason of this post is that sometimes there is a little truth to every rumour/legend even if it turns out to be an mouldy corroded aircraft inspection plate/or component in a dark dusty cave.

Cheers all

[Broken-Wrench]

[quote="JDK"][quote="sdennison"]OK, so my ride in the back seat is out. Bill, feel better now? What kind of moronic attitude is this you are demonstrating? Zo, ve should alzo refer to each Cherman as ein Kraut? Get with reality Dude! I think the altitude is leaving you with a lean oxygen mixture. Watch for detonation... [/quote]
You or Bill may have justification for the views, but your post's a bit rich in tone, IMHO. Feel free to convince by rational argument rather than getting personal, hmmm?

We are also well off topic and wandering into the polarised opinion mindfield. Let's keep it where it should be.

On which note, I'd love to see pics, and I agree with Randy's post regarding the Zero construction; but it wouldn't be the first time another Japanese fighter was misidentified. I'm not holding my breath, it is (theoretically) possible.

The whole 'Zero' thing is a bit odd too. I tried to buy a spoof toy called 'Invisible Jim'. When the shop assistant told me there were none left, I asked him how he was sure...

http://www.gizmoandwidget.com/index.php ... ucts_id=93[/quote]



It's a little rough and I don't understand it all but I think he is saying it is ok to call people Japanese.

Broken-wrench
riddler interpeter

[Nathan]

It may be true !!!! On my last visit to the solomans I was told of several "zeros" in caves around the island chain..whether or not it is true I don't know....never checked out the veracity of the story as I didn't have time..but I was a party to verifying other significant so called "B*LLS**T" claims that I had heard from people about equipment dumped in semi underground hangers and such..and they were true!!!!
The main problem is that some items the Soloman islanders mentioned that were "good or as new" condition turned out to be twisted pieces of unrecognisable junk or mouldy corroded components.

Meanwhile back in OZ a well respected warbird restorer showed me pics of a Japanese Zero in a cave that he found back in the mid 90's in PNG ...admittedly it was less than pristine condition but much much better condition than the other stuff we see come out of the islands and (with the right money) is an excellent candidate for airworthy restoration. The location and name of said prominant restorer has been kept out of this post, out of respect for the person who calls it his "retirement" fund. Members in Oz may figure out who said person is if they know of him or know him

Anyway, the reason of this post is that sometimes there is a little truth to every rumour/legend even if it turns out to be an mouldy corroded aircraft inspection plate/or component in a dark dusty cave.

Cheers all

Im kinda puzzled why people are calling the finds BS? I heard simular stories and I believe some are true. There are many hidden treasures in the Pacific.

[daveymac82c]

I hope this "off topic" stuff can simmer down a little and we can concentrate more on the stories and possible truths that are out there.

I for one, will not discredit the possibility that there are Japanese aircraft hidden on some of the islands of the pacific. It makes for a great story... And it would be really quite incredible if it were true.

I'll just sit here and wait for pictures.

As for the legal issues for airplanes like this, who would end up the owner of the aircraft? Wouldn't title lie with the Solomon Islands Gov't? Wouldn't anyone trying to recover them also have to go through the same things the guys did recovering from Ballale?

Just a thought.

Cheers,

David McIntosh

[HELLDIVERS]

Oh ya I'm still waiting to see the photos of all the P-38s they discovered buried at Clark Field Of the hundreds claimed to be there still not one photo There seems to be no shortage of eye witness accounts of buried Lancasters, Russian P-63s, German and Japanese evaluation A/Cs, new jeeps and harleys still in the crates, buried Hellcats, the stories go on and on. It must all be true because Uncle Joes buddy saw them do it.I've heard several stories over the years but have never seen one photo to back up any of the claims. It's more wishful thinking and poeple that are lonely and want some attention that dream up these stories, why I don't know.Yes there is the Swamp Ghost, P-61 recovery,Kbird,P-47s, even modern jets buried in the desert sands ect. that are for real but I've yet to see anything buried new in the crate yet.If your willing to believe it there will be no shortage of tall tails to feed your imagination just wait for the photos before you mail the checks Happy hunting please post your photos if they are ever found

Thanks Mike