Mysterious Mustang in Jakarta

[Fogg1]

354 at Ambarawa. It could be F-354, a Mustang purchased around 1960 from US surplus. The Mustang is supposed to represent a Dutch Mustang, and many people believe a Dutch Mustang was shot down by the Indonesians and crashed into the Ambarawa lake, while actually it was a RAF Thunderbolt. Originally the museum staff had mistakenly painted French roundels on this Mustang.

Thanks for confirming that.

There is still an ANG radio call plate on the instrument panel that reads 511526. Either this Mustang is 45-11526, or it has the panel of 45-11526.

According to Joe Baugher's, 45-11526 is alive and well in Australia.

H- blocks were used by the Dutch ML, and F-blocks by AURI, the 3xx numbers apparently remained the same.

Yes, I think that's about the only thing that's safe to assume.

If cockpit details of F-347 and F-338 are known, why aren't the c/n's known if the plate is in the cockpit? Just out of interest.

Peter

[Marc]

According to Joe Baugher's, 45-11526 is alive and well in Australia

Well, yes, according to everybody, 45-11526 is alive and well in Australia, but at least her instrument panel is still in Ambarawa. I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

Considering that the AURI airframes turned into some sort of giant Lego game, everything is possible, the two extreme solutions being:
- only the instrument panel of 45-11526 is at Ambarawa, maybe because of cannibalization by AURI at the end of the Mustang’s active service, and the rest of the airframe, including the manufacturer’s plate, is in Australia.
- only the manufacturer’s plate is in Australia, while the rest of 45-11526 is at Ambarawa.
It would not be the first time that a warbird was rebuilt around a manufacturer’s plate.

Yes, I think that's about the only thing that's safe to assume

Hmmm, even with that, I have a couple of problems. F-339 for example, reported w/o by ML in 1947 by Dutch Profile, but I found an entry for F-339 in an AURI logbook. Go figure.

Manufacturer’s plates have disappeared from most of the preserved AURI Mustangs. When it happened I do not know. It is even possible that some plates were removed in the US by the people who sold the airframes to AURI around 1960., maybe to be re-used on airframes with dubious ID and please the FAA. Maybe some AURI mechanic removed these useless bits of metal from the cockpit, or maybe there was a hunt for manufacturer plates when the airframes were recovered in Indonesia in 1978/1979., for the same reason: what’s a warbird project without an ID?
As I already mentioned, based on the data collected by Mal Gougon and analyzed by John Dienst, of the Mustangs recovered from Indonesia in 1978/79, only few stock Mustang airframe identities can be positively confirmed.
Marc

[Fogg1]

OK, thanks Marc for giving an insight in the scene. Obviously I know nothing, just hoped to contribute some information.

I also found a faded PK registration below the wing of the C-47 'RI-001' in the same museum, which seems to identify it. I'll start another thread on that, unless somebody who reads this tells me this has been discussed before.

Peter

[Hal B]

of the Mustangs recovered from Indonesia, only few stock Mustang airframe identities can be positively confirmed.
Marc

I'll have to agree with Marc on this...

[Fouga23]

I've long learned never to trust government information. For sure not that of secretive countries. I know aircraft in the Israeli AF museum who they deny having!

[Marc]

Obviously I know nothing

Peter,
If my posts gave the impression I wanted to show off, I’m sincerely sorry. I don’t know much either.
My only intention was to show the predicament you get into when you catch the AURI Mustang virus.
It’s interesting but very frustrating. Any contribution, like your data about the number in the main wheel well, is welcome, as it may help to get some pieces of the puzzle together.

From the top of my head, the Dakota RI-001 at the Jakarta museum is a former Garuda Dak. What happened to the real RI-001 is another AURI mystery.

On another subject, I’m going through your Indonesia pictures at Airliners (well, I assume they are yours), and found them very interesting.
By the way, from where did you take the shots of the derelict Merpati F28 and ex-KLM B747 at Cengkareng? From the viewing gallery of the old terminal 1?
I also wonder why the Hound at Semarang is repainted with modern style lo-viz markings.

Fouga23,
In this case, I believe Indonesian government information about their Mustangs is either non-existent, or is lost somewhere in their archives. Obviously book-keeping is not their favourite pastime. They needed the planes in 1959/1960, found some in the US, purchased them and used them.
What is strange is that some information in the US about the surplus sales was reportedly destroyed.

Cheers!
Marc

[Swiss Mustangs]

What is strange is that some information in the US about the surplus sales was reportedly destroyed.
Marc

Well, Marc, as a cover-up and 'compensation' for the AUREV/PRRI episode that went pear-shaped, they (the U.S.) made airframes available to the AURI... but due to the nature of involvement, they probably decided to keep low profile on the 'official records' side of the deal. And since the airframes already were on reclamation status, nobody really felt obliged to keep the IAR's up-to-date anymore...

Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts.

Cordially
Martin

[Swiss Mustangs]

here's a photo that shows the same part as mentioned in the first post....

also note the various colors of primers and non-painted parts in this unrestored P-51 (Swiss AF)



Martin

[Marc]

due to the nature of involvement, they probably decided to keep low profile on the 'official records' side of the deal

Very plausible indeed, Martin.
Talking about Permesta, have you seen the December issue of Fliegerrevue-Xtra?
Cheers!
Marc

[Fogg1]

Peter,
If my posts gave the impression I wanted to show off, I’m sincerely sorry. I don’t know much either.

Dear Marc,

Not at all. I'm grateful for your information and sincerely impressed with the knowledge of people here. I didn't mean to sound ironic at all. Sorry for coming across like that.

From the top of my head, the Dakota RI-001 at the Jakarta museum is a former Garuda Dak.

I found traces of 'PK-GDZ' under the port wing. GDZ (a former NEIAF aircraft) crashed on 29 Dec 61 near Surabaya killing all 14 on board according to internet 'crash sites'. I guess it's possible that a salvaged wing was fitted to another aircraft, though.

On another subject, I’m going through your Indonesia pictures at Airliners (well, I assume they are yours), and found them very interesting.
By the way, from where did you take the shots of the derelict Merpati F28 and ex-KLM B747 at Cengkareng? From the viewing gallery of the old terminal 1?

Yes, they're mine. Thank you. Yes, the 'graveyard' at CGK is frighteningly close to the domestic terminal. It's quite easy to take a few of such shots, especially with a small-diameter lens that you can poke through the fence at the 'waving galleries'.

Cheers,

Peter

[Marc]

Thanks for the reply, and no need to apologize.
Is GDZ not a former KLM-IIB Dakota rather than NEIAF? I don’t have my data with me right now, but I think the former NEIAF and MLD Daks went to AURI, while the KLM-IIB Daks went to the newly formed Garuda Indonesian Airways.
Back to CGK, may I ask what camera/lens you used?
Cheers!
Marc

[Fogg1]

Is GDZ not a former KLM-IIB Dakota rather than NEIAF?

According to said 'crash sites' it is 42-92686 (c/n 12514). According to Joe Baugher's, that one to RFC (what's that?) Oct 1, 1945. To NEIAF as DT-991, callsign VH-RCI. By 1955 was PK-DPK of Garuda.

Back to CGK, may I ask what camera/lens you used?

Nikon D80 with Nikkor 70-300 VR (which did not fit though the fence so I had to struggle), focal length 270 mm. Shot in late afternoon; early morning should be better I think.

Peter

[JDK]

According to Joe Baugher's, that one to RFC (what's that?) Oct 1, 1945.

Reconstruction Finance Corporation, IIRC, i.e. US postwar scrap/sale system.

Certainly not Royal Flying Corps.

[Marc]

Hi Peter,
Thanks for the camera info.
Regarding Dakotas, it is correct that a certain number of NEIAF Dakotas were transferred to KLM.
According to a list I have, which I believe to have been compiled by a ‘P.C. Boer’, DT-991, callsign VH-RCI, was c/n 12499, and it was handed over to KLM in May 1948 as PK-DPJ. Confusing…
Cheers!
Marc