Catch-22 aircraft

[aerovin]

Here's Jim Farmer's raw listing from the excellent December 1972 article in Air Classics. I would think this is accurate:

[Stoney]

I flew “Passionate Paulette” for 3 months with Hal Gray and thought it was 6B, but its been so long I didn't trust my memory. After that I flew one the just had the Sqd. patch on it, I think it was 6G with Stu Kunkee.

[6trn4brn]

Hey Stoney...as I am sure you are aware, Passionate Paulette is on display at the Grissom Air Museum, but in a different guise. She has been painted over, but up-close, ya can still see the lettering of her former glory. When I was inside of her about a year ago, she is very rough inside! I did sit in your pilot seat and make airplane noises

Overall, considering that she is sitting out in the harsh Indiana weather year-round, she does not look too bad. The good people there at the museum do all they can do with the little resources on hand.

[davegnz]

Lots and lots of questions -

The list from Air Classics does help some - but:

http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/ai ... NAB-25.htm

Lists 6Y as Luscious Lulu

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b25regis ... 28925.html

lists 44-28925 as 6E Tokyo Express (of couse is using a film clip easy to read 6F as 6F) plus why would a MTO B-25 have Tokyo painted on - Superman might be correct??

From what I understood, the B-25's made to look like B-25C's had the tail turrets painted over

[davegnz]

Finally purchased a copy of Catch-22 on DVD, almost every aircraft is shown somewhere (so much for the theary that you can do an aviation movie with only 3 aircraft)

The list so far:

6A B-25H-1NA 43-4513 (N1203), Olive Drab B-25J Unknown - Camera ship
6B B-25J-30NC 44-86843 (N3507G), Passionette Paulette 03507GOlive Drab B-25J, Grisson AFB
6C B-25J-25NC 44-29939 (N9456Z), (girl on bomb) 09456Z, Camouflage B-25J Mid-Atlantic Museum
6D B-25J-30NC 44-31032 (N3174G), Free, Fast and Ready13174G, Olive Drab B-25J March AFB
6E B-25 Camouflage No turret B-25 Wreckage
6F B-25J-15NC 43-28925 (N7687G), Superman, Cavanaugh Flight Museum
6G B-25J-5NC 43-28204 (N9856C), Booby Trap 39856C Olive Drab B-25J Aero Traders
6H B-25J-25NC 44-30748 (N8195H), Miss Renee 38195H, Camouflage, Van Nuyes
6I B-25J-30NC 44-30925 (N9494Z), Laden Maiden, Desert Tan B-25J, Brussels Air Museum
6J B-25J-30NC 44-86701 (N7681C) Annzas - 25 missions Camouflage Destroyed Hanger Fire
6K B-25J-25NC 44-30801 (N3699G) Vestal Virgin 13699G, Olive Drab B-25J, Challenge Publications
6M B-25J-20NC 44-29366 (N9115Z), aBominable Snowman, Olive Drab B-25J, RAF Bomber Command Museum
6N B-25H-1NA 43-4432 (N10V), Berlin Express 410V, Camouflage B-25J EAA museum
6Q B-25J-25NC 44-30077 (N2849G), The Denver Dumper, Olive Drab B-25J, Aero Trader
6S B-25J-35NC 44-8843 (XB-HEY), Tan B-25C Destroyed
6V B-25J-25NC 44-30493 (N9451Z), Dumbo 39451Z, Olive Drab B-25C, Malmstrom AFB
6W B-25J-25NC 44-30649 (N2452Z), Hot Pants 32452Z, B-25C, Maxwell AFB
6Y B-25J-20NC 44-29887 (N10564), Luscious Lulu 19 missions,Olive Drab, NASM
6? B-25J-25NC 44-30823 (N1042B), (nude on bomb) Olive Drab Fort Worth - Camera ship

All aircraft had Blue tips to the Verticle Stabilizers

Several aircraft / names are reconized when viewing the film that are not listed elsewhere - Lusious Lulu (open secquence) Hot Pants (take-off sequence), aBominable Snowman (General Deedle medal sequence (first aircraft in line-up))

One interestering item - right before the sequence where they burn XB-HEY they pan past a B-25 in the junkyard - thought at first this was the wreckage of XB-HEY but too many differences between aircraft (antenna's different, XB-HEY was painted tan, junkyard B-25 is Camouflage, XB-HEY has horiz. stab falling off etc. XB-HEY was coded 6S - junkyard Mitchell was 6E with s/n 40???, XB-HEY had turret, 6E without turret (or turret post hole) etc...)

Did Catch-22 have a 19th aircraft (airframe wreckage).

Another point towards a 19th aircraft, in the commentary they mention that XB-HEY was not supposed to be destroyed (all aircraft were to be removed) and that the special effects people got a little to ambitious with making the wreck of XB-HEY look exciting. Since the junkyard was planned (look at the background at all the B-25 bits and pieces) would it not have been unreasonable for Paramount to truck in an unairworthy B-25

Big question is what is the ID of this airframe

[Craig59]

Hi Dave,

A couple minor points -

You still have N9452Z listed as N2452Z. It's onscreen moniker should be 39452Z.

There is a very clear photograph on page 39 of B-25 Mitchell in Civil Service of the burned out hulk of XB-HEY. That photograph shows what appears to be the code of 6B on the left stab. In any case, the left side of the letter is a vertical white line so 'S' is not likely but, I don't know which side they show in the film. Could it have been different on the right stab?

Great investigative work on your part!

[Stoney]

The left stab has 6S on it and I took the pix as it was burning.

[Craig59]

[davegnz]

added information to wikipedia site on Catch-22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_%28film%29

Still not sure about XB-HEY and tail codes - in the movive shows clearly 6S - if the wreck in the boneyard is HEY then they did some tail swapping. If this is HEY then airframe was not destroyed (just very bent) anyone want to go to Mexico and dig up a Mitchell

[davegnz]

added information to wikipedia site on Catch-22

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22_%28film%29

Still not sure about XB-HEY and tail codes - in the movive shows clearly 6S - if the wreck in the boneyard is HEY then they did some tail swapping. If this is HEY then airframe was not destroyed (just very bent) anyone want to go to Mexico and dig up a Mitchell

[aerovin]

One interestering item - right before the sequence where they burn XB-HEY they pan past a B-25 in the junkyard - thought at first this was the wreckage of XB-HEY but too many differences between aircraft (antenna's different, XB-HEY was painted tan, junkyard B-25 is Camouflage, XB-HEY has horiz. stab falling off etc. XB-HEY was coded 6S - junkyard Mitchell was 6E with s/n 40???, XB-HEY had turret, 6E without turret (or turret post hole) etc...)

Did Catch-22 have a 19th aircraft (airframe wreckage).

Another point towards a 19th aircraft, in the commentary they mention that XB-HEY was not supposed to be destroyed (all aircraft were to be removed) and that the special effects people got a little to ambitious with making the wreck of XB-HEY look exciting. Since the junkyard was planned (look at the background at all the B-25 bits and pieces) would it not have been unreasonable for Paramount to truck in an unairworthy B-25

Big question is what is the ID of this airframe

I'm close to finishing a big update to add much Catch-22 material to my website. I have been intrigued also about whether or not there was a 19th B-25 and whether the airplane I had attributed as XB-HEY in my B-25 Mitchell in Civil Service book was correct. In the process of scanning photos, I discerned from this photo:



this closeup:



and this can be compared to this screen shot from the film:



and this isolated section from that shot:



Seems to me these are the same airplanes and the referenced scene in the film was shot at two different times using the same airplane (the burning one in part of the scene, the background crashed airplane in the other).

It would appear that the small overwing windows match in both photos, and it would also appear that the two extra aft fuselage windows have been papered over, then torn for the scene.

I'm starting to feel like a "Trekkie"....maybe it be a "Catchy".

The Catch-22 material should be added to my Tallmantz section by next week at http://www.aerovintage.com.

[sgt hawk]

44-29939 is "Briefing Time" now at MAAM, I have a picture of this one when she was derelict at Akron?Canton airport in the mid 70's. Probably the best restored to original 25 out there. They did a h$ll of a job on her and certainly looks great from when I saw her. You could have picked it up for pocket change back then.

[Jerry O'Neill]

44-29939 is "Briefing Time" now at MAAM, I have a picture of this one when she was derelict at Akron?Canton airport in the mid 70's. Probably the best restored to original 25 out there. They did a h$ll of a job on her and certainly looks great from when I saw her. You could have picked it up for pocket change back then.

I agree that "Briefing Time" looks great, but it was originally restored back in the late 70's and since then there have been some fantastically authentic "Catch-22" Mitchell's restored to exacting standards.
"How Boot That" at the Cavanaugh Museum comes to mind and it was a Combat veteran, wears it's original WWII combat markings and won Grand Champion at Oshkosh the year it was restored. All that after it was rotting away on a pedestal in a cemetery in PA!
Jerry.

[CH2Tdriver]

Stoney's thread mentions that the 25's flew almost 1500 hrs for 12 mins of screen time! I was wondering has anyone ever made an attempt to contact Paramount and see if any of the stock footage taken still survives in a can in some vault?

I'm thinking of how many times we have seen recycled footage from TTT and BoB in countless movies and tv shows over the years. I have the DVD of Dark Blue World which used alot of BoB footage that was not seen in the original release of BoB. I thought that was really neat to see. The making of featurette actually shows you how they digitally remastered the original footage, going so far as to re-edit the squadron codes on the sides of the Spits to match the new footage!!

I would gladly cough up the money for a DVD of the unseen remastered Catch 22 B-25 footage.

Pete

[Jerry O'Neill]

Stoney's thread mentions that the 25's flew almost 1500 hrs for 12 mins of screen time! I was wondering has anyone ever made an attempt to contact Paramount and see if any of the stock footage taken still survives in a can in some vault?

I'm thinking of how many times we have seen recycled footage from TTT and BoB in countless movies and tv shows over the years. I have the DVD of Dark Blue World which used alot of BoB footage that was not seen in the original release of BoB. I thought that was really neat to see. The making of featurette actually shows you how they digitally remastered the original footage, going so far as to re-edit the squadron codes on the sides of the Spits to match the new footage!!

I would gladly cough up the money for a DVD of the unseen remastered Catch 22 B-25 footage.

Pete

There is actually more footage used in the film than people think. Many don't count the background plates shot for use in the studio process shots of the actors in the cockpits while "flying".
They may not be featuring the B-25 as a subject, but I think that is where a lot of the footage shot was used. Still, there is a lot of feet film footage that hasn't seen the light of day since then.

Does anybody out there have a copy of the TV show "Catch-22"?
Maybe some of the footage was eventually used in that show, which starred Richard Dreyfuss. I watched it when it originally aired back in 1973, but I don't remember too many specifics.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0357529/
Jerry