Ditching a warbird

[O.P.]

I personally think that there is a 50-50 chance of getting hurt during a backseat bailout on a T28

Very interesting, but what would you do with the attitude of the nose when committing to a bail-out? I'm trying to picture the process in my mind. Would you have time at altitude to, for example, flip the plane on it's back? and drop out then? .... I'm just very nieve to a bail-out procedure.

heheeee, I've said the same thing to Dan D about a dozen times. I see those FW190 pilots on gun camera films invert their plane, pop the canopy, and fall out.

Those are pretty extraordinary circumstances. Those guys are in a pretty desparate situation. They also didn't have passengers.

Straight and level. Open the canopy, pull the lever all the way back hard. It activates a nitrogen bottle that will open the canopy in about a second. Release your harness. Stand up in the seat. Jump head first aiming yourself at the wing root on the right side. When you clear the plane, pull the ring.

Here is something else that I am pretty anal about. Keep yourself, and the harness clear during flight. Recheck the harness during flight.

I read another account, I think it was in a magazine, or it might have been here, the guy it happend to is a WIX poster.

He had a fire in his Corsair. He got it on the ground. He jumped out of the burning plane while it was still moving. He still had his headset on. He got out and it yanked him to the ground. I think it turned out that that had probably saved his life. But that was lucky.

I can't tell you how many times I had put the parachute on, then put on the headphones to hear whats going on, then put the harness on over it's cable. And every possible combination of that mistake. The other thing, putting a camera strap around your neck. That is over the headphone cable almost always.

After reading that story, I keep everything clear always. When bad stuff happens,

Headphones off and stuffed out of the way.
Harness
Canopy
Stand up
Jump

The other thing is, recheck the harness. I was in one T28, having fun, taking pictures, we get to short final and make the checks,,,

Gear down
Hydraulic pressure
Flaps
Harness locked......ohhhhh sh1t....
The harness is not only not locked, it is not even fastened,,ahhhhhhhhhh

Luckily nothing "Hard" happened on landing, or I would have been wearing a facefull of intrument panel.

Apparently when I was having all of that fun picture taking, my elbow brushed the locking mechanism unlocking the harness. Not cool.

Sooo, keep everything clear always. Recheck the harness every 15 minutes.

[bipe215]

I personally think that there is a 50-50 chance of getting hurt during a backseat bailout on a T28

Very interesting, but what would you do with the attitude of the nose when committing to a bail-out? I'm trying to picture the process in my mind. Would you have time at altitude to, for example, flip the plane on it's back? and drop out then? .... I'm just very nieve to a bail-out procedure.

If you had the time and ability, invert sit up in the seat and kick the stick foward, thereby propelling yourself away from the a/c.

Steve G

So you and your passengers wear parachutes? Wow! ... Is that normal for T-28's? .... my question would be then, that everyone you take up I would assume has had parachute experience? Or do you just give them a brief explanation of what to do if all heck broke loose. Very interesting indeed.

[Warren_C]

In my aircraft accident investigation training, it was always preached that "slide distance is life". This is basically stating a slow dissipation of energy is your best chance for surviving.

Hitting rocks, bumps, trees, ditches, or any other objects during the deceleration phase will introduce G spikes into the crash sequence reducing your chances.

A sudden stop is dissipation of high G both in vertical and horizontal axis, not good on the body. Vertical velocity dissipation is a key survival factor. In Stall/spin accidents high vertical, low forward velocity are not normally survivable because of our low vertical tolerances

Another important item, how much energy the aircraft will absorb, or protect the occupant during the crash sequence, the more energy that is directed away from the occupant, survival chances goes way up

If you had the time and ability, invert sit up in the seat and kick the stick foward, thereby propelling yourself away from the a/c.

Sounds logical, but I bet would be very difficult. I can just imagine what would be going on in your mind, but the question comes to mind all the times during WW2 that pilots bailed out, some I assume several times.

Another question is wouldn't you want to bring to aircraft to a near stall so as to slow down as much as possible? Possibly even stall the plane so the plane falls away from you.

[bipe215]

If you had the time and ability, invert sit up in the seat and kick the stick foward, thereby propelling yourself away from the a/c.

Sounds logical, but I bet would be very difficult. I can just imagine what would be going on in your mind, but the question comes to mind all the times during WW2 that pilots bailed out, some I assume several times.

Another question is wouldn't you want to bring to aircraft to a near stall so as to slow down as much as possible? Possibly even stall the plane so the plane falls away from you.

You don't want the a/c or what's left of it falling with you. Lot's of cases where pilots had to fight to get away from the a/c after departing.
Bill Lear's book, 'Fly Fast, Sin Boldly' has a great story about half of his Mustang following him all the way down.

Steve G

[O.P.]

So you and your passengers wear parachutes? Wow! ... Is that normal for T-28's? .... my question would be then, that everyone you take up I would assume has had parachute experience? Or do you just give them a brief explanation of what to do if all heck broke loose. Very interesting indeed.

All of the Warbird owners I have met use parachutes in their planes. The only times I have not worn one in a warbird is, if they are in for inspection/repacking, the Collings Foundation Bombers, and a T34 a buddy and me used to play in about 25 years ago.

The rule is, any bank over 45 degrees requires the pilot and passengers to be wearing a parachute, any acro requires a parachute.

Almost no one has parachute experience. You have to teach them how to put it on and how it works and when it is to be used. Preflight.

And, I am a newbie. I have a lot of hours to go before I am PIC in a T28B. I've just been very lucky to know a lot of owners who always treat me great and give me a lot of time and experience in their airplanes. Until I hit the magic 500 hours, I am your average 172 pilot.

[Kyleb]

If you had the time and ability, invert sit up in the seat and kick the stick foward, thereby propelling yourself away from the a/c.

Sounds logical, but I bet would be very difficult. I can just imagine what would be going on in your mind, but the question comes to mind all the times during WW2 that pilots bailed out, some I assume several times.

Another question is wouldn't you want to bring to aircraft to a near stall so as to slow down as much as possible? Possibly even stall the plane so the plane falls away from you.

I've never read a story or heard a veteran (or anyone else) say that bailing out is easy. In fact, I have read horrifying accounts of people trying to escape out of control aircraft, jammed canopies, etc. Yet they still did it.

As far as trying to stall the airplane, then jump, I suspect that there are very few times when a pilot has that opportunity. Most bail out attempts come from severely damaged aircraft which isn't conducive to a controlled exit.

The only way I can imagine someone stalling, then jumping is if the engine quits at a reasonable altitude and the pilot elects to bail instead of trying for a restart. Most of the folks I know would try everything they knew to save the airplane, and, failing that, would try to land the thing. Besides, jumping from an airplane ain't the safest thing in the world anyway.

I have a great photo of my father after belly landing a corsair in an onion field in Canada after the war, around 1946 when he was in the Navy reserves. He's sitting on the wing with a bent prop and mud, dirt, onions everywhere .... and a very pissed off farmer who took the photo. hehehe ... oops. I'll post it here soon.

[O.P.]

Kyleb is right on with that.

The other thing I have learned from the warbird/ex military/airline pilots I fly with, is, never leave the plane.

There are very few reasons to leave a plane. Catastophic failure, fire, over the sierras with an engine failure and nowhere to go. There are more, but those are the ones I can think off of the top of my head.

I never figured it was a matter of saving the plane, it is a matter of safety, for all involved, in the air and on the ground. If you are in a place were it is safe to let an unmanned plane go, you can probably land it in the same place. If you are in a place where it is unsafe to let an unmanned plane go, be a man and take your lumps. Nobody deserves to have an airplane sticking in their roof burning the place to the ground.

[Bill Greenwood]

Hellcat, airplanes that have scoop underneath like Spit, Hurri, P-40, P-51.etc. tend to dig in and go down very quickly on contact with the water. The Spitfire Pilot Notes are very clear on this matter in the emergency section under Ditching. "Whenever possible the aircraft should be abandoned by parachute rather than ditched, since the ditching qualities are know to be very poor." That is pretty clear. The Mustang manual says a successful touchdown needs to be made no faster than 70 mph which is hard to do.

[bdk]

When he jumped, he hit the tail, which hurt him really bad. When he tried to use the chute, the ring came off in his hand. He managed to survive the incident, and his story is incredible.

As I recall, he didn't pull the ring. The ring snagged on something and the chute deployed as he was going over the side. He hit his head on the horizontal stab and was knocked out (his helmet was also knocked off and never found). He woke up on the way down with the chute already deployed.

WHAT Bill!!!!! ..... you mean to tell me that when Ben Afleck ditched in the movie Pearl harbor, he should have bailed-out? He seemed to just dive right in, no problem, and then that wing sure worked well as a surfboard .... lololol

[bdk]

Hellcat, airplanes that have scoop underneath like Spit, Hurri, P-40, P-51.etc. tend to dig in and go down very quickly on contact with the water.

Many aircraft submarine during ditching and then bob to the surface. That results in quite a deceleration. I know a guy that ditched a turbo 210 successfully, but those look a lot like a seaplane to start with (as long as the gear is up).

[O.P.]

When he jumped, he hit the tail, which hurt him really bad. When he tried to use the chute, the ring came off in his hand. He managed to survive the incident, and his story is incredible.

As I recall, he didn't pull the ring. The ring snagged on something and the chute deployed as he was going over the side. He hit his head on the horizontal stab and was knocked out (his helmet was also knocked off and never found). He woke up on the way down with the chute already deployed.

Hi BDK! You're right! I just found this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_3wYLE_rGU

Very cool guy.