"WHAT WE NEED"

[T2 Ernie]

Are fleets wearing out like the previously mentioned Starlifters? Or is it just a matter of older tech?

In a word, yes. They are pushed harder for longer than training. I speak mainly of SOF because that's what I'm most familiar with, but I know we aged the MC-130H years during the first month of both OEF & OIF. Flying them at emergency wartime weights (which is already 20K more than max gross weight) - routinely - at low-level. I've even taken off 7K above emergency wartime weight so I could make a landing at emergency wartime weight.

In the late '90s, we identified the MC-130H wingbox as requiring replacement by 2015. Too far away, so we didn't do anything. We even skipped depot cycles because the planes were in such great shape. Then OEF/OIF and we've got planes whose wings are hurting. It's about $9M & 10 months to replace a wing box on a herk...this isn't a quick fix.

And what about Extension programs?

Of course there are some. The older E-model Herks have had new wings twice in their 45 year lives, but now they're going to AMARC instead. J-model is the future.

The acquisition program is fatally flawed. It's a vicious circle of bureaucrats, big business, & goverment - things get drawn out, over-priced, & compromised far too often. Sometimes, things don't turn out because future technology doesn't mature as quickly as anticipated, but more often than not, it's simply poor acquisition practices.

The J-model & Osprey are great examples of the long, drawn-out acquisition process (F22 isn't quite as bad as these two IMO). The biases that seem so blatant are borderling unbelievable - look at CSAR-X. A chinook? Really? Why not an Osprey - makes much more sense than any RW asset for CSAR - yet it isn't even in contention.

There seems to be a lack of acountability at both the government & contractor levels. Couple this with an apparent lack of foresight by anyone of any authority & the future is grim.

[Randy Haskin]

But the premise was we are buying fighters when it should be bombers. I don't have any details, but I don't think it was advocating more transports.

Well, I'm a fighter guy so that's naturally where my heart is going to be...

BUT...

I acknowledge that other weapon systems -- both in the air and on the ground -- are also aging, broken, and in need of replacement just as significantly.

I think it is the general public that needs to 'wake up' and understand that the US' self-generated hype in the post-Desert Storm era was true 17 years ago, but NOT NOW.

[Randy Haskin]

AFSOC has done the same. We have "leadership" who thinks we work for JFACC, have sacrificed capability on the altar of safety, and have violated every SOF Truth out there. We are so myopically focused on what we're doing today, we're completely ignoring tomorrow. It is a culpably negligent path that will only result in more losses.

It should really say something to everyone both inside and outside Big Blue that words coming from an AFSOC guy and from an ACC guy (okay, really USAFE, but who is counting) completely agree.

Sorry to hear that AFSOC is in the same boat. You guys always seemed like the only ones who scoffed all of the standard "blue" AF crap in favor of a mission-first attitude. Sounds like that is waning or gone entirely.

[Randy Haskin]

Randy,

You asked me to list some of the points from the book, the quote you highlighted was Tillman's not mine. He agrees with your point of view, that we are sorely lacking in all areas of procurement for all services. But also that most "planners" are only focused on GWOT and not on all of the possible threats to come. Far be it from me to under emphsize the importance of the Air Force. I was just trying to give a flavor of the book as a whole, which obviously can't be done without reading the whole thing. I would be willing to bet that if you read it you will agree with more than you find inaccurate.

Yeah, my apologies on this one -- you asked about a book, and I launched into a tirade without even having read the information. Sorry 'bout that!

I'm interested...I'll put in an Amazon order and read it.

[EDowning]

Randy wrote:

I'm interested...I'll put in an Amazon order and read it.

Can't wait to hear what you think. Another interesting aspect of this book is that Tillman thinks the dirty little secret in the Pentagon is that by their flawed aquisition choices, they have done away almost completely with the "Fighter" mission and converted the mission to what would have clearly been considered "Attack" in the past. A mission that much of the Fighters were never really designed for, and this has put additional stress on airframes that has reduced the life of already stressed capabilities, both men and machine.

All the best, Randy.

[T2 Ernie]

Sorry to hear that AFSOC is in the same boat. You guys always seemed like the only ones who scoffed all of the standard "blue" AF crap in favor of a mission-first attitude. Sounds like that is waning or gone entirely.

Ahh, yes - the good ole days. One of my crusty old Flt Engineers (now retired) used to love saying, "We used to f*ck women & drink whiskey. Now we drink diet coke & f*ck each other." The really sad part is, he's right.

Prior to OEF, we had rules, but they were like the quote, for the guidance of wise men & the obedience of fools. Back then, it was more like - mission first, the rules will sort themselves out. No way you could do that these days.

In the late '90s, I actually had a SQ/CC give me three planes & crews, tell me to go away for a week, figure out how to do something we'd never done before (4-ship fingertip, in chem gear, at 100' on NVGs) & just be careful - we were planning for a no-kidding mission. (There was another rehearsal that, if it had gone, we probably wouldn't be in some of the garden spots we're in now, but that got CNX at the last minute.)

Now that it's all my peers who are SQ/CCs, I ask the few that were on that mission if they think they could get away with that today - the answer is a resounding 'no'.

The good ole days. I remember them fondly.

I'm going to put that book on my list (I've got a long enough list now!), but I'm very interested in reading it.

I, too, latched onto another opportunity to rant against the machine...