Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:35 pm
OK, Boys...take a deep breath. You can't argue all sides of the topic. If you want to race, paint it any friggin' color you want. If you are historical, paint it any color you want. If you don't own own a warbird, shut the f**k up!
Who's arguing? ... we're just discussing a good topic ... If you think we're arguing? .... shut the F*CK UP YOURSELF!!!!! ..... hehehe, just kidding ....
Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:38 pm
Ummm What?
Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:39 pm
these aren't arguements they are "discussions"
Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:41 pm
My feelings are that the flying ones should be kept as original as SAFELY possible. I've seen too many that were hacked-up to suit some owners whim; things like blue tinted school bus windows in Hellcats and Corsairs, yuck.
Keep the panel close to original and hide the modern radios; ala Upupa Epops.
51fixer makes some good points regarding IFR capabilities, though I wonder if knowing you're a/c is IFR certified may cause a pilot to take risks that he otherwise wouldn't. Specially if he is a little (or a lot) rusty on instruments in THAT airplane. We're going through a major re-do of the avionics on a '51 at this time and believe me, there has been a lot of discussion about this subject.
If I see another gray interior in a warbird, I think I'll be sick...
And for cripes sake, hide the da*n GPS when the things on display!
The static warbirds in museums should be done as original as is possible, after all they can't use operational considerations as an excuse not to.
Finally, the above is just my opinion and represents how I would restore an airplane that I owned. I fully recognize an owners right to deal with his property as he sees fit. For some, functionality is more important than originality
Keep the panel close to original and hide the modern radios; ala Upupa Epops.
51fixer makes some good points regarding IFR capabilities, though I wonder if knowing you're a/c is IFR certified may cause a pilot to take risks that he otherwise wouldn't. Specially if he is a little (or a lot) rusty on instruments in THAT airplane. We're going through a major re-do of the avionics on a '51 at this time and believe me, there has been a lot of discussion about this subject.
If I see another gray interior in a warbird, I think I'll be sick...
And for cripes sake, hide the da*n GPS when the things on display!
The static warbirds in museums should be done as original as is possible, after all they can't use operational considerations as an excuse not to.
Finally, the above is just my opinion and represents how I would restore an airplane that I owned. I fully recognize an owners right to deal with his property as he sees fit. For some, functionality is more important than originality
Last edited by Hal B on Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:42 pm
I think he was just playing, ... he couldn't be serious ... could he? ... I know I'm just playing .... remember ... Santa is close by, so don't blow it now .... ho, ho, ho
BTW ... I never argue with anyone about anything ... WHY? ... because I always WINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!
BTW, BTW .... I never debate with anyone about anything ... WHY? ... because I always LOOSSSSSSSE!!!!!!
Seriously, I agree that if you're going to display an aircraft in a static museum, I see no reason to not display it very accurately, seems not that big a deal and something to be very proud of.
BTW ... I never argue with anyone about anything ... WHY? ... because I always WINNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!
BTW, BTW .... I never debate with anyone about anything ... WHY? ... because I always LOOSSSSSSSE!!!!!!
Seriously, I agree that if you're going to display an aircraft in a static museum, I see no reason to not display it very accurately, seems not that big a deal and something to be very proud of.
Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:53 pm
Hellcat wrote:OK, Boys...take a deep breath. You can't argue all sides of the topic. If you want to race, paint it any friggin' color you want. If you are historical, paint it any color you want. If you don't own own a warbird, shut the f**k up!
Who's arguing? ... we're just discussing a good topic ... If you think we're arguing? .... shut the F*CK UP YOURSELF!!!!! ..... hehehe, just kidding ....
Hellcat, my dear friend. I am only trying to make the point. We the non-endowed, can make any demands that we wish. The reality is, if I could afford to own, maintain, and fly a warbird, I would do it in the manner I felt correct. If I wanted to race it, I would paint it in whatever scheme that would make my sponsor happy, history be damned.
If I wanted a historical re-creation, I'd paint it in the scheme that was meaningful to me. If I wanted a museum piece, I'd follow the data plate to the "T" and then put it in a museum, to be polished until the rivet heads wore away.
Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:58 pm
Hal B wrote:like blue tinted school bus windows in Hellcats and Corsairs, yuck.
If you are refering to the non-original rear windows on many modified two-seater aircraft. They are blue in an effort to maintain the historical integrity of the aircraft by trying to blend the window in with the blue paint...
Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:01 am
I concure as well, my friend. Your point is well taken. I really don't have a problem with the racers looking the way they do, Who's to say that the early civilian paint schemes are not original, they are original to the period they were painted that way, the beautifully restored F2G racer comes to mind. I love the scheme and originality of it. Again, if you choose a military scheme, do it right ...
I tend to agree with 109, the very best effort seems to have been made to blend the windows with the blue. I can live with that simply for the rear seat. .... I think .....
I tend to agree with 109, the very best effort seems to have been made to blend the windows with the blue. I can live with that simply for the rear seat. .... I think .....
Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:34 am
Let's look at P-38's for example. I have seen the NMUSAF's example and the one at the NASM both in just this month alone. Anyone seen Glacier Girl ?
Thats a pretty bad example. I have seen GLACIER GIRL several times this past summer,at airshows. It was also on display quite a bit at the PLANES OF FAME in CHINO. And the owner tried to get it to ENGLAND.
Thats a pretty bad example. I have seen GLACIER GIRL several times this past summer,at airshows. It was also on display quite a bit at the PLANES OF FAME in CHINO. And the owner tried to get it to ENGLAND.
Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:05 am
How is that a bad example? How does the average person that is interested in Glacier Girl get to view her, and learn about it's story?
Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:01 pm
mustangdriver wrote:How is that a bad example? How does the average person that is interested in Glacier Girl get to view her, and learn about it's story?
Find out what airshow she'll be at and go to it. There is plenty about her history online.
Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:37 pm
mustangdriver wrote:How is that a bad example? How does the average person that is interested in Glacier Girl get to view her, and learn about it's story?
The internet is a great starting point for anyone interested in finding and visiting warbirds. I get most of my parts trading via the internet, Its the best tool for research!
Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:19 pm
Hal B wrote:
Keep the panel close to original and hide the modern radios; ala Upupa Epops.
51fixer makes some good points regarding IFR capabilities, though I wonder if knowing you're a/c is IFR certified may cause a pilot to take risks that he otherwise wouldn't. Specially if he is a little (or a lot) rusty on instruments in THAT airplane. We're going through a major re-do of the avionics on a '51 at this time and believe me, there has been a lot of discussion about this subject.
The pilots who fly these in our hangar are all IFR pilots. We have shows we try to get to in order to get paid. We do set personal limits as for go/no go decisions. Our panels are not stock and won't be made to look so. Princess is an exception. But we have lost too many very experienced pilots in situations that the aircraft wasn't equipped for.
I feel your statement might be looked at backwards, many experienced pilots seem to push limits into IFR situations with A/C that are not up to IFR conditions. I personally feel that the A/C should be equipped and maintained to allow the pilot the ability to get out of those IFR situations. That combined with pilot training and proficiency is the safest way to look at that safety issue. The pilot or organization setting go/no go decisions up front based on experience, weather and type flown (single or multi) ties into this as an important factor.
Rich
Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:53 pm
First off, I recieved P.M.'s pretty much calling me an a#$hole for bashing Glacier Girl and the owner. Let me ONCE AGAIN say that I only used that aircraft as an example that popped in my head. There was another thread talking about this very thing about displaying Glacier Girl when she is in between airshow seasons so that the General public can see her. I am not bashing the owner for buying the airplane. If I had the money to buy a P-38, that is the one that I would want as well. But answers of "Go see it on the internet" are not answers. If that is the case, ground all of the warbirds, and let's just all play Flgiht simulator. But this proves my point. I have seen you guys time and time again bash airmuseums and noo one says anything about it. I question a flying warbird status, and now I get P.M.'s about it. I think it is safe to say that anyone here that knows me, and has met me, knows that I mean no harm to the GG crew and owner. I AM thankful that he is keeping it flying, I just tought I could prove a point about the need to see it during the off season. I saw it at Oshkosh and GOM, and as usaul it was beautiful.
To the owner of the GG crew, pilot, and owner, if you thought I was being disrespectful, I am sorry. Those are not my intentions to you, or to anyone on the board.
To the owner of the GG crew, pilot, and owner, if you thought I was being disrespectful, I am sorry. Those are not my intentions to you, or to anyone on the board.
Sun Dec 23, 2007 6:54 pm
Mr. Lewis purchased the aircraft because he wanted too. Not because he wanted to make everyone happy. He wanted to make himself happy.
Unfortunantly his hangar is not easily accessable to the public as it is in a secure airpark on the international airport in San Antonio, and his other very large hangar is on a private ranch. However, he has spoken many times about building a hangar somewhere that would be accessable to the public. But when he does or does not build that hangar is up to him.
I can assure you that he is not hiding those airplanes from the general public. He enjoys people seeing his warbirds and he enjoys taking, or having them taken, to airshows to be shown off.
Our warbirds are locked up in a hangar all day unless we are out playing with them or having an event in the hangar or on the airport. If you went to our FBO and asked politely, they will escort you over to the hangar to see them if they are not busy.
Unfortunantly his hangar is not easily accessable to the public as it is in a secure airpark on the international airport in San Antonio, and his other very large hangar is on a private ranch. However, he has spoken many times about building a hangar somewhere that would be accessable to the public. But when he does or does not build that hangar is up to him.
I can assure you that he is not hiding those airplanes from the general public. He enjoys people seeing his warbirds and he enjoys taking, or having them taken, to airshows to be shown off.
Our warbirds are locked up in a hangar all day unless we are out playing with them or having an event in the hangar or on the airport. If you went to our FBO and asked politely, they will escort you over to the hangar to see them if they are not busy.