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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:00 pm 
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forgotten Fields.........No matter what you call it I think the southern boys won that little squirmish TWICE at the same place. Can't you northern boys take a hint?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:17 pm 
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Hey, isn't that Robert E. Lee on the 50 dollar bill? Oh, that's right, it's Ulysses S. Grant. Good thing it is, cause that Secesh money ain't worth too much anymore.... But they do make some of the best ham I've ever had...

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 Post subject: Re: Let's have a war
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:22 pm 
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Forgotten Field wrote:


1) You Southerner's sent all your economically challenged African Americans up here, and they are still economically challenged and impacting the quality of life in the city;


2) and all the strip malls built at Manassas (that's in the vicinity of Bull Run for you Southern people who can't name battles right).


1) I just cannot believe you said that. Blacks moved to the North after the civil war in hopes of starting a new life, bucko. What they found was the same old racism they thought they'd left behind in the South. Regardless, to blame an entire RACE for your yankee problems sounds outright racist. Try and word it differently or something next time, willya? Just because you use the words African Americans to describe them doesn't mean that denigrating them as a people is okay. Right? :roll:


2) It's always funny to me that yankees have always felt so much resentment over the whole Bull Run thing. Maybe that's because you guys broke and ran TWICE at Mannasas? Must have been embarassing in front of all those picnicers and senators and hookers who sat on that hill to watch their boys get stampeded. You can call it Manassas all you want. We won it, so we'll keep calling it Bull Run. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:40 pm 
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I must have been making too much noise with my OY-1. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:40 pm 
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What in the hell does any of this have to do with a very real problem facing us in the aviation and warbird world? Do you all realize just how important this is? There isn't a day that goes by that I don't get a complaint by some idiot at the end of a runways about one of our birds.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:19 am 
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Jack Cook wrote:

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The Nit-Whits are bitching here in Salem also.


Well, I'm glad to learn that it's not just here in America. :shock:

Headline - Notice of Noise Abatement Meeting Leads to Refight of Civil War

WTF, I have seen an un-be-liv-able amount of stupid ass BS, on this site, but I must honestly say I didn't foresee a refight of the civil war coming. And further more, if you post something so asinine that I have no choice but to agree with Muddyboots' response, you know you are out of line.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:39 am 
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Hey, I 3was just playing about the north south thing, myself. Everybody knows we have to be nice to the Yankees now. :P It's in the constitution or somethin. But the cracker remarks are seriously efgayed upgayed.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:50 am 
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Muddy Boots wrote:

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But the cracker remarks are seriously efgayed upgayed.


Never understood why "Cracker" is any better to say than the N word, but if somebody published "Ivory" magazine I wouldn't buy it just because I'm white.
As for the second part of the comment above, is that some of gay bashing or what? (just kidding, of course)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:55 am 
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I was born in Mississippi, and raised in Louisiana. I am allowed to say cracker and coonass :P

But I get to hit you if you do :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:07 am 
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Muddyboots wrote:
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I was born in Mississippi, and raised in Louisiana. I am allowed to say cracker and coonass

But I get to hit you if you do


Well then, I have just the thing to deal with you.

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:33 am 
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EDowning wrote:
Headline - Notice of Noise Abatement Meeting Leads to Refight of Civil War

It is a rather impressive diversion from topic.

There's still issues from the English Civil War if you want to look, and damage and battlefields, but mostly the English find more recent excuses for a fight. Like football.

Dragging it back to warbirds, the Spanish Air Force Museum has a row of Spanish Civil War era aircraft on show. They have Republican markings on one side, and Nationalist on the other, presumably so the museum's going down the middle of the road in a country where their civil war is very much still living memory. The funny thing is it's easy to miss if you aren't paying attention. Unlike the civil war's effects. Franco was the last Fascist dictator, and his regime only fell because he finally died. Proof that good things do happen to bad people. Talking to Spaniards in their aviation, the personal family effects of that war (as well as a passion for aviation) is hard to miss. Something to be grateful we don't have to deal with.

On the noise abatement issue, the general lesson to take away is we all need to be good (and positive) ambassadors for aviation, and get as many friends and family 'on side' as we can. Aviation is easy to demonise, and getting hot and attacking 'x' simply serves the NIMBYs* with more ammo as to the unpleasantness of aviation people. If EDowning and MuddyBoots can have a group hug, we know we are all lovely...

Seriously - give someone a good aviation experience, and it'll help us all.

Regards,

(*Not in my backyard)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:23 am 
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Hey guys I was just funnin' don't go postal on me!!! Didn't mean to start the civil war over again.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:03 am 
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JDK wrote:
EDowning wrote:
Headline - Notice of Noise Abatement Meeting Leads to Refight of Civil War

It is a rather impressive diversion from topic.

There's still issues from the English Civil War if you want to look, and damage and battlefields, but mostly the English find more recent excuses for a fight. Like football.

Dragging it back to warbirds, the Spanish Air Force Museum has a row of Spanish Civil War era aircraft on show. They have Republican markings on one side, and Nationalist on the other, presumably so the museum's going down the middle of the road in a country where their civil war is very much still living memory. The funny thing is it's easy to miss if you aren't paying attention. Unlike the civil war's effects. Franco was the last Fascist dictator, and his regime only fell because he finally died. Proof that good things do happen to bad people. Talking to Spaniards in their aviation, the personal family effects of that war (as well as a passion for aviation) is hard to miss. Something to be grateful we don't have to deal with.

On the noise abatement issue, the general lesson to take away is we all need to be good (and positive) ambassadors for aviation, and get as many friends and family 'on side' as we can. Aviation is easy to demonise, and getting hot and attacking 'x' simply serves the NIMBYs* with more ammo as to the unpleasantness of aviation people. If EDowning and MuddyBoots can have a group hug, we know we are all lovely...

Seriously - give someone a good aviation experience, and it'll help us all.

Regards,

(*Not in my backyard)


Great point James on being good aviation ambassadors. When EAA's B-17 made a tour stop at our airport, we went the extra mile and got other warbirds on static displays and a few of us did some flying. We also got reenactors and a local radio and TV station involved to give away a free B-17 ride. We can't do enough ot this stuff. There's even been ideas about expanding on this and doing EAA Young Eagle rides for the kids etc or even a small airshow....lots of ways to woo the public.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:16 am 
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Ellington Field in houston has bee in existence since 1917. This year is their 90th anniversary. When EFD was built and for many years afterward it was out in the sticks. Then in the 60s NASA came along and Clear Lake City was built by Friendswood Development Corp. ( an Exxon Co. ) Houses have now been built right up to the south perimeter fence. The good neighbor policy is strictly enforced, at least on Sunday morning, you see, there is a big church that was built about 3/4 of a mile from the field and the pastor was complaining about afterburner noise during the sermon ! :lol:

The church has been there less than 10 years.


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 Post subject: Okay, some more drivel
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:17 am 
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Muddyboots,
You are absolutely right. I apologize for the offense in my remarks. After I re-read it, it did sound really racist, which is not my intent or my persona. It was intended as a response to the comment that the Yankees invaded the South, like a plague, or a band of raiders, and negatively effected the quality of life there.
So I'm going to attempt to stuff my foot further in my mouth. A few points, here, about African American movement to Baltimore. A large segment of the people of African American descent who live in Baltimore today came from North and South Carolina during the 1930's, 1940's, and 1950's. This was a movement due to the failure of share-cropping in the 1930's, and because there was still a large industrial base in Baltimore with jobs that could be occupied in the then-segregated culture. There was also a degree of tolerance from elements of the community that didn't exist elsewhere, e.g. Sinai Hospital of Baltimore would treat African Americans when other hospitals would not, street cars were not segregated, etc. However, the jobs weren't here any more than they were elsewhere during the depression, until the war boom in 1939-1945. An aside here- Glenn L. Martin didn't like African Americans, and didn't want to hire them into the work force. He was compelled to by local politicians. Where he placed them was in Sinclair Division, which was where all the Martin 250 CE and 250 SH Turrets were built.

A major problem with this relocation was housing. At the time, to accomodate the influx, there were large-enough tracts of the city which were given over to public assistance housing and public housing for the new immigrants, but these were areas in the poorer sections of town, most of the houses really run down. Then, in the late 1940's, the phenomenon of block busting came in. There are several good books about it but I don't have the titles handy. Houses in predominantly white neighborhoods of the city were sold to African Americans. This inspired the rest of the neighborhood to move out, as most of the localities were heavily ethnic Eastern European and Western European and did not well tolerate African American culture. Of course, in the post-war times, everybody was expected to go back to their places before the war. For most African Americans, this meant a return to the farm industry, packing houses, and other low-end labor- Glenn L. Martin and other war manufacturers didn't need them any more. The traditional employment for African Americans in the region went away after WWII as the market consolidated, leaving the city residents, now increasingly African American in composition, without many options. The block busting led to larger and larger tracts of the farms surrounding Baltimore being cut up for suburban developments, known as the phenomenon of Urban Sprawl.

There were 33 airports in the City of Baltimore and Baltimore County, which surrounds the city. Because of this sprawl, most of these closed in the 1940's through the 1960's. and there are only 2 public use airports in Baltimore County, and none in the city. Nearly all of these airports, and you can look them up on Paul Freeman's site on old airfields, were closed and eventually developed due to the expanding use of land for suburban housing development, which was spurred by the "white flight" from the cities. So, the tone of my comments notwithstanding, Southern African American entry into the Baltimore Metropolitan area was a factor in the eventual closing of the local airports. I am not saying they were individually or collectively responsible for that, but their arrival here and the white population's reaction to their prosperity and buy-in to the local economy contributed to the local airport closings here, largely due to the block-busting. I'm not in any way trying to excuse my comments, as I freely admit that they could be construed as racially charged. But as a scholar, I thought you might be interested.

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