Warbird Information Exchange

I'm sure Paul and others will be far more able to answer this but the T-33 and MIG-15, when they give rides here in Wendover, charge a "cover the fuel" price of about $500+/- $50 for a 20 minute ride.

I would assume to do a "dogfight" you will need a pilot with at least a FAST card and more likely with an acro card.

my meager .02

Tom P.

As for a FAA requirments go there are some misconceptions about FAST and Acro cards. A card to fly formation is issued by one of the FAST groups, think it is FORMATION AND SAFETY TRAINING, and it is Only required when flying in Waivered Airspace. Most airshows have a written waiver from the local FAA office (FSDO) that gives an exemption to certain rules like airspeed. If these rules are not waived, then no card is needed to fly formation, but you must comply with the speed and other rules. The only other FARs applicable is that the formation must be briefed, and it can"t be when carrying passengers for hire, which is unfortunate because the fighter guys like to fly with the bombers and I doubt if there is ever any passenger on Sentimental Journey or 927 that would not like to see a fighter escort. Anyone can fly formation outside of waivered space. If not how could one ever get the practice to get the card? Same for acro, or Demonstrated Aerobatic Competency Card. If you want to do acro below 1500 feet like at a show you need the card. If you want to go up to play or practice above this is an open area, no card is required. CAUTION, there are many fatal warbird accidents from low level acro, legal or not.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Would it not be almost "mandatory" by whomever is insuring the movie that all pilots have FAST cards just to show they've done the training as part of the "demonstration of competency" for the operations to be covered under the policy?

I would also believe that the owners would probably want it too, but then again, I can only speak from my own point-of-view.

We do movie and television work all of the time. So does the POF. The way Hollywood rounds up aircraft and the contacts that they use have been long established. I have met and worked with these folks and they know their stuff. The movie people already know where to go to get what they need.

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OK I'm throwing the BULLSHIT FLAG on this one boys.

Everybody knows that they don't make airplane movies with real airplanes anymore. Now they use Nerdy kids behind their CGI computers.


Shay
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Semper Fortis

Cap, many warbird/EAA/CAF pilots have formation cards, fewer have acro cards. Don't confuse the fast card with "competency". There are a number of skilled and experienced pilots, especially older ones who were flying long before the Fast program, or those who are not primarily conccerned with formation flying in shows who don't have that card. I got my card from Archie Donahue in the CAF in 1987. 10 or 15 years later along came a group of pilots with, in my opinion, often less experience and ability than many of the old guys, but they have the organization and the acitvism, as well as the ear of the FAA to be put in charge. The card shows you have done the training of that particular group and that airplane. I was fortunate to own a T-34 and they have an active and excellent program that tries to include new pilots. I have heard that there are others where exclusion and insider politics make it less effective and less pleasant. As good as some of the formation part of the training is, I have yet to see much genuine safety training. The mantra is that formation flying before was unsafe and now is safe, but I don't see much difference. Before or after Fast, warbird acidents continue and most have nothing to do with formation. What the program has done, at its best, is to bring more pilots into airshow type flying. As for the acro card, it is really a permit to take risk at low altitude. It certainly doesn't guarantee any safety, practially all those killed in airshows had such a card. Not many with more qualifications than Charlie Hilliard, or Art Scholl, but still they were lost.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

T-33 fuel burn is 5 gal/minute unless you're really hot-rodding at high power settings then it's 7-8 gal/min. MiGs and F-86s will be in the same neighborhood, but slightly higher...then you have to factor in maintenance, insurance, and pilot costs.

Shay is probably right!

Just film a single T-33/MIG/F-86 doing some baseline manuevers and to get the right engine sounds, then the CGI guys will create squadrons of planes with the right colors etc. . . .

Tom P.

Ray Bachman of the Phoenix area has a nice Mig-17 (now with a working afterburner...'nother story...) that last flew this week. He'll be down for a short time for an engine change but would probably welcome a chance to fly for the movie. If you need more info, drop me a line and I'll put you in touch with him.

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Without wires, it won't work.

Shay your attitude is not welcomed.

Unlike you some of us in the warbird industry, we are trying to recreate the real days of flight using REAL planes.

I will admit CGI will be used for some of the scenes we plan mainly due to time and some costs.

I have spoken at length with my other film buddy and we both agree to ensure 100% realism we need a bloody big budget to support acting, logistics and acquiring authentic period gear for this film IF it will get off the ground ...

We are currently assessing what is likely to be available before we move any more forward.

If you dont want to see a REAL warbird movie that is perfectly fine with us. I do know many others in the world would tho.

Our aim is to try and recreate everything down to the last detail which would set a new standard perhaps .. but at a cost.

If you are going to make a Korea era movie there is a pretty high standard with Bridges At Toko Ri, which was very good. The flying and dialog could pass muster with real pilots, and it was loaded with some of the biggest stars of that time. Grace Kelly, William Holden, and Mickey Rooney were first rate stars. As for real flying I remember The Great Waldo Pepper which had real planes even if replicas. Right after college I almost had a movie experience. I was asked to be a minor investor in BADLANDS starring a couple of unknowns. I was too smart to get involved in something I knew very little about! Not so smart after all, since the newcomers turned out to be Sissy Spacek and Martin Sheen and it was a low budget film that made a good profit and got good reviews.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Let me know if you need a C-47, there were many used at night as flare ships and of course haulinfg ass and trash.

As someone who has been around the block a few times I tend to agree with Dan. When it comes to an aviation film project the easiest part of the whole thing is getting aircraft to be in the movie. The film industry has a long list of contacts from people in the Pentagon for current military aircraft to POF. There are a lot of pilots who have done a lot of work with Hollywood: Hinton, Ritzman, etc etc. When they are ready to actually make the movie they will contact them and they are well healed in the warbird community. Most warbird operators are happy to make some money with their aircraft for a change so finding willing victims will be easy as well. I have also found that the biggest obstacle in making and aviation movie is actually making the movie. There is always a lot of whisperings of this or that project or idea to make this or that movie but you just can't count on any of them happening until they actually call you up and say "be here on this day with your airplane" and even then there is only a 50% chance that it will actually happen (at least on that day). That industry is notorious for "ideas" and less notorious for them actually coming to fruition. Not that there I have anything against that I mean that is what makes Hollywood great is ideas and it takes a lot of wading through bogus ideas to get one that makes money. There are a ton of logistics involved in even getting something into production. I was involved with the what was going to be the "Red Tails" movie in the early 90s and it is still classified as "pre production." I also have a close friend who has been working on what I consider to be the ultimate aviation movie of all time and it is going on about 6 years now and he is still working to make that a reality. It is going to happen someday yes but at the same time if this movie is at the "idea" stage and not several years into the production process I think we may be jumping the gun. Feature films of any size and budget are usually very long in the making.

Fairy tails can come true

It can happen to you

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A good friend that posts on this forum from time to time was called almost out of the blue to be in the movie "Walk the Line"! The movie people wanted his Beech 18 taxiing in the back ground of a shot when Johnny Cash was on the phone in the Air Force. He said the shot took all day for about ten seconds of footage in the movie.

Steve

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