TO Cal fires

[DiggerWW2]

Food for Thought: If the U.S. would have saved those thousands & thousands of brand-new surplus WW2 Bombers, sitting harmlessly on the Arizona Desert, they could have easily been converted for Fire-Fighting use. That fire would have been out in less than an hour after a Thousand Plane Raid... Digger

[Paul Krumrei]

Food for Thought: If the U.S. would have saved those thousands & thousands of brand-new surplus WW2 Bombers, sitting harmlessly on the Arizona Desert, they could have easily been converted for Fire-Fighting use. That fire would have been out in less than an hour after a Thousand Plane Raid... Digger

Cost is too much for a once in a while fire like that.

What they need to do it get a fleet of those 747 Fire bombers and hose the piss out of that place!

[bdk]

Word this morning is that the Martin Mars are being put into the water and will be down to San Diego perhaps by tomorrow.

Now there is something I'd like to see! I wonder where they will be scooping water? Maybe it's time for a road trip!

[T2 Ernie]

Lets pray there aren't any horror scenes like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vuVe5VcgEQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGSwWVh5TAI

I used to work on C-130's & they're one tough aircraft.
Any word on what caused this?? Digger

Catastrophic center wing box failure. IIRC, the CWB in that particular C-130A had never been replaced & likely never inspected. This is the "watershed" event I referred to regarding USFS aircraft usage in another post here:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=16734

This was the reason for the restriction, grounding & retirement of hundreds of older C-130E aircraft in the past 5-6 years.

We recently found some cracks in the rainbow fittings (outer wing attach point) in one of our birds. We're flying it again, but with reduced inspection intervals. It goes to depot in Dec anyway...

All MC-130H & AC-130U are getting new CWB over the next 6-10 years - MC-130H fleet is hurting badly right now...

[davem]

Apparently there is a good chance the Mars will be operating out of San Diego Harbour - could be quite a show.

[bdk]

Apparently there is a good chance the Mars will be operating out of San Diego Harbour - could be quite a show.

Do they scoop or operate out of salt water typically?

[K5DH]

Apparently there is a good chance the Mars will be operating out of San Diego Harbour - could be quite a show.

That WOULD be quite a show! Would someone PLEEEEEEEEZE get some video for us???

Cheers!

[davem]

The Mars obviously prefer to operate and scoop out of fresh water for corrosion purposes - but they do certainly operate on salt quite a bit.

My understanding is that there is a difference in retardants used. The best one only works with fresh water - as such they have to bunker the appropriate retardant for the operating conditions. It isn't as easy as doing one scoop from a lake, the next from the ocean.

I would assume that they may be limited in facilities in San Diego to moor and service the Mars (are there big lakes locally??), hence the talk of operating out of the harbour.

[airnutz]

I would assume that they may be limited in facilities in San Diego to moor and service the Mars (are there big lakes locally??), hence the talk of operating out of the harbour.

Actually DaveM, there may be very good facilities remaining at the northeast end
of Nort Island in San Diego Harbor.

When I was in SD in the early 70's the seaplane ramps there were massive and
still had quite a few P5M Marlins stored there.

I found out in recently, 3 of the Marlins were essentially "new" and covered in
preservative fresh from refit until the late 70's. They were to be dispensed to museums, but
were scrapped a few months after her sisters!! Rat Bastids..

Here's some reading about that and slides from a former P5 jockey...
http://home.earthlink.net/~patron40/

[Cubs]

Apparently there is a good chance the Mars will be operating out of San Diego Harbour - could be quite a show.

That WOULD be quite a show! Would someone PLEEEEEEEEZE get some video for us???

Cheers!

Some WIXer's video would be great. In the meantime, go to www.youtube.com and type in the search field something like: water bomber
There are at least two videos of the Mars making a low pass.

[Jack Cook]

That WOULD be quite a show!

It would be a better show if it wasn't life or death

[mrhenniger]

The following seems to imply there are some water resevoirs the Mars could be operating from.

Mike


This was posted on the airtanker group:

VICTORIA -- A Martin Mars water bomber was expected to leave B.C. a dawn Wednesday for San Diego, where weary U.S. crews are battling wildfires that so far have burned more than 750 homes and forced the evacuation of more than half a million residents.

The water bomber's owner, Wayne Coulson, flew with 10 employees to San Diego on Tuesday and will meet up with the aircraft as it arrives.

"We're really grateful to have it here," said Maurice Luque, spokesman
of the San Diego fire department.

The fires, fuelled by drought and fanned by the dry Santa Ana winds, are
not contained, but the winds lessened somewhat on Tuesday.

"It would have been so wonderful to have had the Mars here a day or so
ago when the fire first broke out," said Luque, adding that resources,
personnel, and equipment have been sent from Northern California to help
out.

The fires could be larger than the ones that devastated the San Diego
region in 2003, said Luque: "We thought we saw the last of fires of that
magnitude but we definitely have that here."

Coulson Group had been anticipating a call for the water bomber and
plans were in place to send it south.

"I've been down with San Diego fire department four times in the last
five weeks working...on placing the Mars down there for the Santa Anas,"
said Coulson on Tuesday. "We're ahead of the game, we've flown into a
bunch of the water reservoirs down there, so we have a sense of where
we're going to go."

A tractor-trailer used for specialized maintenance and a fuel truck left
for San Diego Monday.

This isn't the first time a Coulson-owned aircraft has fought wildfires
in Southern California. A firefighting helicopter worked in the Los
Angeles basin for five years.

"It's a natural fit for us," said Coulson. "We know everybody, we know
what we're going into, and everyone knows us. We're pretty pleased."

The water bomber will likely be put to work covering homes and
structures with a protective covering called Thermo-Gel, which consists
of 98 per cent water and a super-absorbent polymer. Fighting the fires
right now is just too difficult, said Coulson.

"There's not a hell of a lot you can do with a 60-mph wind and fire
coming at you other than just gelling homes to protect as many as you
can," he said.

[bdk]

Mike, have you heard any news from your relatives in Malibu?

[flyboyid]

The water bomber will likely be put to work covering homes and
structures with a protective covering called Thermo-Gel, which consists
of 98 per cent water and a super-absorbent polymer.

Originaly I had wondered whether this gel could be mixed on board. I was going to post the question but then I decided to check the Mars website myself. http://www.martinmars.com/aircraft.htm

The most frequently asked question regarding the Mars is "How do they pick up their water?". This part of the flying operation is, perhaps, the most demanding in terms of teamwork among the crew. The Captain executes a normal landing, keeps the the aircraft "on the step" and allows the speed to decrease to 70 knots. He then passes engine power to the Flight Engineer and selects the scoops to the "down" position. The ram pressure for injecting the water into the tanks is such that the aircraft is taking on water at a rate in excess of a ton per second. To account for this added weight, the Flight Engineer must advance the throttles to maintain a skimming speed of 60-70 knots to ensure the aircraft remains on the step. Pickup time is, on average, 25 seconds. When the tanks are full, the Captain will have the scoops raised, call for takeoff power from the Flight Engineer and carry out a normal loaded takeoff. Once airborne, the foam concentrate is injected into the water load (normally, 30 US gallons of concentrate into the 7,200 US gallon water load) where it is dispersed and remains inert until the load is dropped. Once dropped, the tumbling action causes expansion which converts the water load into a foam load. This process is repeated for each drop. In other words, this vital team work is carried out, on average, every 15 minutes per aircraft. For a Gel drop , the concentrate is injected during the scooping process to allow even mixing.

Which leads me to a different question... Quick math says it needs about 3,000 feet to take on a water load. Anyone know the overall minimum length a Mars needs to operate off a lake?

Brian

[skybolt2003]

Its flying off Lake Elsinore.
I saw some pictures on NCTimes.com while trying to figure out if my dad's house is still around.