Gas Station B-17 in Milwaukie, OR

[APG85]

Waste...

[B-29 Super Fort]

Waste...

Have to second that thought. Perhaps the city/county might see some value as a tourist destination and provide some financial backing.

[APG85]

I hate to say this, but I think the only answer is to get this aircraft out of the hands of the people who have carlessly neglected it over the years.
Ironically, we have them to thank for it's very existance but now it is obviously threatened with destruction. I would hope they would see it's value and sell it to someone who could properly care for it...but I doubt it at this point.

People go all over the world pulling aircraft out of jungles, lakes, glaciers, etc. and here's one rotting on poles in plane sight on the side of the road. Makes me sick...

[DryMartini]

Sure, it was neglected, but it had a lot of help from
vandals, and even other groups who took parts
for other B-17 restorations.

[Randy Haskin]

Ironically, we have them to thank for it's very existance but now it is obviously threatened with destruction. I would hope they would see it's value and sell it to someone who could properly care for it...but I doubt it at this point.

Walt Soplata, anyone?

[bomberflight]

Ten years from now will people be looking back on the warbird community as a whole and saying shame on us for not saving this airplane in 2007 ?

I can't think of anything more to say ......

[mustangdriver]

I wish someone would tell me how I fell on this one. I am not a fan of a B-17 being taken care of that way. I am also not a fan of someone taking an item from someone that owns it. Randy brought up a good point with Walter Soplata. I think the main difference is there is no display agreement at all with Walter. Walter did not buy aircraft from the government. he bought scrap. It just so happens to be scrap airframes from them. Now we all know they aren't scrap, but that is what he bought them as. I thought this B-17 was bought the same way, but it sounds like it was not. I hate to see it left out in the cold, but hate to see the family loose it as well.

[groundpounder]

the right thing to do would be for these people to park their ego's and sell or donate the plane to someone that has the means and ability to actually do something with it. its not as if their efforts wouldnt be recognised in the end and they could have the pleasure of knowing that their commitment to the aircraft had made it possible for others to enjoy. obviously it is just wasting away. where is the tail gunners compartment? maybe the local government could force their hand by enforcing a by-law or something along those lines. money talks. doesnt anyone want to buy it??

[Matt Gunsch]

Sure, it was neglected, but it had a lot of help from
vandals, and even other groups who took parts
for other B-17 restorations.

I don't know about the other groups, but the Sentimental Journey crew left the plane in better shape than when they got there. SJ is flying with the top turret from that B-17.

[B-17 Buff]

She needs to be moved, hangered and looked after asap in my opinion before she gets any worse. It seems with all the good intensions and will in the world the lacey family havent been able to pull this restoration off. 11 years is just too long. In this day and age when the few remaining bits of an a/c are now being recovered from the depths of oceans and jungles for restoration and saving before they are gone can we possibly still have a/c as historic as a B-17 sitting like this. I know this is a complex one with the history of the family but something must be done.

The same goes for 'Prestons Pride' that i paid a visit to in April still sitting by the side of the freeway in the elements, damaged and covered in bird poo.

Not to offend any of my esteemed american cousins (i realise im in the minority on this forum! but i dont believe here in the uk you would see in this day and age a Lancaster, for example, as a 'gate guard' out in the elements!!)

Fibreglass yes, 20 year old airframe maybe, 65 year old historical a/c, definately not.

So why a 17?

[Pooner]

the right thing to do would be for these people to park their ego's and sell or donate the plane to someone that has the means and ability to actually do something with it... obviously it is just wasting away. maybe the local government could force their hand by enforcing a by-law or something along those lines.

You're being sarcastic, right, specifically with your last line? I sure hope so. The last thing in the world this airplane needs right now is to be hassled by some fool at the municipal or state level.

Nothing dooms an old airplane quicker than having some knothead in public office find objection to a parked or stored airplane - on an airfield or not. While you may be passionate about old airplanes, I can bet you any amount of money there are few - if any - appointed or elected officials out there who would care if that thing on the pole was the original Wright flyer, a B-17 or the Space Shuttle if someone started making noise that it's in derelict condition. Man, that kind of attitude should have died with the Johnson administration, but sadly it prevails in government to this day. All we need is some dumb oaf from city hall looking into our yards or private property and trying to tell us what we can and can't keep. I've been on the receiving end of that. Keep this kind of help the heck away from me....

While I too admit I'd like to see this airplane preserved, there's a certain amount of respect due to the family that owns it (previously discussed private or government ownership issues set aside). Just because I may disagree with someone who owns an airplane about the way they store, operate or restore it doesn't give me any leverage to suggest that it be taken from them and given to someone I deem to be "more worthy." That attitude is a little to self-righteous.

You are correct that the issue - ultimately - is about money. As with any business transaction, one just has to meet a mutually agreed upon price and everything falls into place. I'd suspect sooner or later this will happen, given the amount of time that has transpired on their fundraising and restoration efforts.

Matt is correct. The SJ team that acquired the top turret and a few other goodies from this airplane back in the early 1980s did so by courting the family - in particular Mr. Lacey - and offering up some pieces and assistance on his airplane in exchange. I was told by one of the fellows sent up there to remove the turret that Lacey had chased away his share of people in the past that viewed his airplane as nothing other than a parts source. Again, his stories about the origin of how he obtained the airplane aside, he was awfully proud of that bomber and it was a big part of his life. Obviously the surviving family members feel some degree of passion toward the airplane as well.

I'm told the ball turret from this airplane ended up on the AMVETS B-17 in Tulare, California.

[davem]

We in Canada have our fair share of Lancasters sitting outside - something that needs to be corrected asap. Thank goodness all of these aircraft were preserved by those with the interest and foresight to save them from the scrapyard.

It is now time for the next generation to take on these projects and see all histroric aircraft that are sitting outside find a home inside - it does not matter if they will fly again or not, they do not deserve to rot out in the weather.

I totally agree that fibreglass is the way to go if one wants to display aircraft outside. This has been the trend in the UK for years and Mr. Tallichet did a fine job in the US with his replicas.

[Fleet16b]

I can remember as a kid seeing pic of the gas station B-17.
difinitely time to get it down.

As stated above we in Canada have/had many Lancs on outside display however I think all or at least most are now down and in museums.
The ones that come to mind are at Calgary , Edmonton, Toronto, Goderich.
Our moderator ,Peter can give a more accurate list than I but I think all our Lancs are inside now

[davem]

As far as I am aware the following Canadian Lancasters are on display outside:

KB839 Greenwood Nova Scotia
KB882 Edmonston New Brunswick
FM136 Calgary Alberta

They all deserve a dry home.

[Canso42]

I'm gonna have to side with Pooner on this one, especially on the bureaucratic interference issue. How many of us here do old cars, muscle cars, old trucks, old Military trucks and so forth. Having had a truck project I inherited sit in my driveway unmoving for two years without being bothered, I don't think I could tolerate some city hall desk driver telling me what I could work on.
As it was pointed out, city hall only sees "derelict" ; they don't care about derelict 'what'?
Yeah, I hate to see Lacey's B-17 sitting there, but I don't have an answer. It is good to hear that it has helped some other restorations.

Doug