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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:55 am 
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It's good to hear the other side of the story.

It's sad though, that most people in the world, when they hear that a pilot dropped a bomb on some soldiers, they assume it's the pilots fault.

I can't imagine how it would feel to have accidentally killed my allies. And it's got to feel even worse when so many people want to blame you.

A sad story from every aspect.

-David


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:03 am 
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Bill Greenwood wrote:
The story, as first, reported was accurate, it was not a lie, or a distortion. It said the F-15 bomb hit the British troops; no conclusion as to why or what went wrong could have been given then and was not given in the first story. I certainly don't find any fault with the first story.


Bill, the issue is that the event made national news and front page on several headlines but the subsequent finding of no fault on the crew was buried (in typical fashion) deep into the newspaper and if there were any news reports on it, they were 30-second blurbs that no one remembers and probably didn't even make the video section of the network or channel's website.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:49 am 
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my dad now 92, a captain of a rifle company of the 31st infantry division related a "friendly fire incident" (a dumb assed phrase) on mindanoa in 1945..... the battalion commander got 1 threw the chest & they buried him on site. my dad related that lack of info caused the needless death. with all the the gps technology i find it tough to accept these incidents today. i can't comprehend the mental baggage that follows from the ones who accidently cost a life of a fellow soldier. cripes..... we can put a bomb on a postage stamp..... can't we eliminate this flaw of battle of friendly fire??

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:50 pm 
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Tragic event.

As for some of the silly remarks about journalism, a little thought rather than rent a rant would help.

Randy's post (for which, thanks) is stated as secondhand information, from unquoted news sources, and does not contain an authoritative statement from anyone in a position of authority. But because it fits certain (very understandable) preferences, that news is 'OK'. However, the news report of the deaths by a bomb by accident remains fact, however unpalatable.

Note:
Quote:
An investigation into the friendly fire deaths of three British soldiers in Afghanistan cleared the aircrew of the U.S. Air Force F-15E Strike Eagle involved in the attack, according to British news reports.

Instead, the Ministry of Defence investigation faulted the British soldier who directed the F-15E onto its target, several British newspapers are claiming


At the end of the day, someone made a (honest) mistake, for which three soldiers died for and one F-15 driver, however much not at fault, will carry some regret, to say the least.

Laying off blame because a report fits preferences doesn't change any of that. Expecting the news of (alleged) responsibility to take as much column inches as the news of three deaths is unrealistic.

It remains sad news.

As to war journalism as a field, there's a lot to be learned in the whys and wherefores. The journalists write what the owners want which is what sells to the people - that's you and me. Ultimately it's what you do or don't support.

Journalist are NOT there to report the official story according to the military or the state - that's what they have PR departments for. This isn't new, as modern journalism it goes back to the Crimea, American Civil War and in the core to the Roman and Greek empires.

Bear in mind the Roman question of 'who guards the guardians?'.

I wouldn't trust any military to tell us what the public need to know - however flawed civilian reporting may be, the history of reporting on the military is an essential check and balance we have to have, or we are heading towards totalitarian states, hardly a desirable outcome.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:35 pm 
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http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_n ... of_my_son/

Quote:
I can’t blame soldier for death of my son
9:00am Thursday 31st July 2008

By Danyelle Garside »

THE grieving mother of a soldier who died in a “friendly fire” tragedy in Afghanistan has refused to place blame on one person following reports a British soldier could be charged with manslaughter.

Private John Thrumble, 21, who grew up in Westcliff, and Privates Aaron McClure and Robert Foster, both 19, were killed last August in the war-torn country.

Pte Thrumble grew up in Westborough Road and attended Westborough Primary School.

All three soldiers, who were members of the Royal Anglian Regiment, died when they came under fire from an American F15 jet.

The Ministry of Defence has confirmed the investigation has concluded and the report could now be passed to the Independent Army Prosecuting Authority.

Military sources have told national newspapers a British air controller could be charged with manslaughter.

However, Pte Thrumble’s mum, Pearl, of Steeple Road, Mayland, near Maldon, said: “I don’t feel one person can or should be held responsible.

“I do think the procedures need to be reviewed as this should not have happened.

“The pilot dropped his bomb on the grid reference given to him, but someone should have known exactly where our boys were going to be.

“We – John’s family – knew where they were going because he called us before they set off.

“So with all the technology available, everyone involved should have known exactly where they were.

“We haven’t been told the full details of what happened, or whether anyone will definitely been charged, so we can’t get angry until we have all the facts.

“But we are angry for the loss of our fantastic son and feel very strongly this should never happen again.

“The pain of losing a son is indescribable.”

Pearl, husband Steve and son Luke plan to mark the first anniversary of Pte Thrumble’s death by releasing his ashes at the top of Ben Nevis.

They will be joined by friends, family and more than 15 members of the Royal Anglian Regiment.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: “The Royal Military Police Special Investigation Branch investigation into the deaths of three British soldiers, on Thursday, August 23, 2007, near Kajaki, Afghanistan, has concluded.

“The report has been passed to the chain of command for consideration.

“If the matter is referred to the independent Army Prosecuting Authority, the authority will consider what, if any, action is to be taken.”


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:44 pm 
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tom d. friedman wrote:
with all the the gps technology i find it tough to accept these incidents today. i can't comprehend the mental baggage that follows from the ones who accidently cost a life of a fellow soldier. cripes..... we can put a bomb on a postage stamp..... can't we eliminate this flaw of battle of friendly fire??


No. Fratricide..."friendly fire"...has always been a terrible part of the all ready ugly endeavor of warfare.

Unless you've seen with your own eyes exactly how chaotic actual combat is, it is difficult to get your mind around it.

It should say something that EVEN WITH all of the current technologies involved, it still happens. Ultmately it is a human determining where to place a weapon, and when there are humans involved there is potential for error. Saying that fratricide can be prevented is the same unrealistic train of thought as curing world hunger or eliminating poverty.

Thos of us who are responsible for dropping that ordnance go to extraordinary lengths to make sure our target is the correct one. The thought of causing friendly deaths by mine own hand is more disturbing to me than even my own death, and is always on the forefront of our thoughts and actions.

I am very close to the people involved in this incident, and they are deeply, deeply saddened by it. It is a heavy burden they will shoulder until their last breath on Earth. The placement of blame on another party does nothing to relieve their feelings of guilt or sorrow.

The reason I posted the articles is for exactly the reason CAPflyer mentioned -- the press is quick to point fingers when the event initially happens, but is never interested in absolution when the investigations are actually complete. Certainly the "story" that the ground party was at fault isn't nearly as sensational as the "cowboy Americans" who "shoot first and think later", so it is not reported.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:51 pm 
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This is the story that ran in the UK press the day after the incident last year:

Quote:
Three British soldiers killed by bomb from American jet
JAMES KIRKUP

THE Ministry of Defence was last night facing searching questions about delays in buying vital new battlefield identification systems after a "friendly fire" incident in Afghanistan in which three British soldiers were killed by United States forces.

The accident, which also left two other UK troops hospitalised, is the latest in a string of "blue on blue" incidents involving US aircraft and UK ground forces, and has heightened British troops' anxieties about "gung-ho" American tactics.

Damagingly for the MoD, the incident came more than five years after MPs first warned that British lives were being put at risk by delays in designing and ordering new battlefield identification systems meant to avert "fratricide" attacks.

Earlier this year, the public accounts committee of MPs again criticised ministers for making slow progress on the Battlefield Target Identification System, a network of compatible radios and signalling devices meant to identify allied forces to one another.

Joint UK-US exercises to help devise the new systems are due to take place next year, and the MoD does not expect to place even provisional contracts with defence firms until next year at the earliest.

The latest incident took place on Thursday evening near the British base at Kajaki, in the Helmand province of southern Afghanistan.

More than 7,000 UK troops are in the country as part of the NATO-led International Security and Assistance Force (ISAF), which is fighting an increasingly deadly war against Taleban insurgents who oppose the elected Afghan government.

The deaths happened after about 90 British soldiers were ambushed on several sides by the Taleban as they conducted a fighting patrol to hunt down insurgents.

The forces, from 1st Battalion, the Royal Anglian Regiment, called for air support from US forces. But when two US F-15 aircraft arrived at the scene, one dropped a bomb directly on to a British position, killing the three soldiers instantly.

Nick Harvey, the Liberal Democrats' defence spokesman, said that, while friendly fire incidents could never be eliminated, the tragedy suggested the MoD had not done enough to put precautions in place.

"One can only conclude that they have not tackled the problem at all, if our troops are calling in US air support that then drops bombs on the people it is supposed to be supporting," he said. "Clearly, there is still something fundamentally wrong with the communications systems here."

Ian Davidson, the Labour MP for Glasgow South West and a member of the public accounts committee, said the delay had been partly down to a failure to agree technical standards for communications systems with the US military "A lot of the difficulty seems to be in co-ordinating with the Americans, especially given their more gung-ho style," he said.

Several British service personnel in Afghanistan echoed those concerns privately. "I just can't figure out how this has happened - how do you tell the families they were killed by supposed allies?" one soldier told The Scotsman.

Another said: "Whenever I hear we have American jets overhead, I get f****** worried. They just don't seem to know what they are doing a lot of the time."

A third said: "They have a different approach to us - they fire first and think later."

As well as the ISAF mission, a separate US force is active in Afghanistan, hunting down suspected al-Qaeda terrorists along the Pakistani border.

Earlier this month, a senior British commander appealed for US special forces units to be withdrawn from his area in Helmand province, warning that they were killing and alienating many Afghan civilians. He said small teams of special forces relied heavily on air strikes for cover as they were unable to defend themselves against large groups of insurgents.

This is believed to be the second friendly-fire incident involving British troops in Afghanistan. The MoD is still investigating reports that Jonathan Wigley, 21, a Royal Marine, was the victim of allied fire when he was killed in Helmand last December.

And earlier this year, UK-US relations were strained when the Pentagon refused to give to a British coroner a cockpit tape from the US aircraft that killed Lance-Corporal Matty Hull of the Household Cavalry in Iraq in 2003. The tape was eventually leaked and submitted to the inquest, but the incident angered many UK service personnel.

Gerald Howarth, a Tory defence spokesman, warned that the US must offer "full co-operation" over the Afghan incident.

"The events around Matty Hull's death did real damage to public opinion in the UK, and that cannot be allowed to happen again," Mr Howarth said.

Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, said that the MoD would always seek to "learn the lessons" of incidents such as Thursday's.

But he went on: "I do not want us to get into a situation where we're blaming each other when, as a matter of fact, US air support has saved our people's lives on many, many occasions, particularly over the last four months in that very theatre."

British forces in Afghanistan immediately announced an inquiry into the incident, while the US Embassy in London issued a statement saying: "The United States expresses its deep condolences to the families and loved ones of the soldiers who died, and we wish those who were injured a speedy recovery."

Christopher Pang, a former NATO official now at the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), a security think tank in London, warned that the investigation must be transparent.

"The most important thing is that the US authorities investigate this thoroughly and are seen to investigate thoroughly," he said. "There is a growing awareness that the Afghan mission risks losing both the support of the Afghan population and the electorates in the countries that are providing forces for the mission."

Paul Smyth, a former RAF commander at the RUSI, said that the nature of the Afghan mission meant ground forces were ever more dependent on air cover.

"As land forces operating in inaccessible and hostile environments place increasing dependence on close air support, the frequency of close air support attacks has increased," he said.

The latest deaths take the number of British military fatalities in Afghanistan since November 2001 to 73.

Additional reporting by Tim Albone

Q & A
WHY WERE UNITED STATES FORCES ANYWHERE NEAR BRITISH TROOPS?
Joint activity carried out by military personnel from more than one country is an everyday occurrence, particularly in the part of Afghanistan where the soldiers died.

British air forces carry out air support for US troops and vice versa. Close air support is an operation in which air fighters drop bombs on enemy forces who pose a danger to colleagues on the ground.

In Afghanistan, the threat comes from the Taleban.

DID THE AMERICAN PILOTS KNOW BRITISH TROOPS WERE ON THE GROUND?
Yes. "Fighter crews don't go around indiscriminately attacking the Taleban in areas like this," explained Tim Ripley, research associate at the Centre for Defence and International Security Studies (CDISS) at Lancaster University.

"Each party involved will have been in contact with the other. They were meant to be in the same place."

He added that each side would have established verbal and visual contact with the other.

WHO TOLD THE PILOTS TO DROP THE BOMB?
Close air support is co-ordinated from the ground by a forward air controller whose job it is to instruct the fighter pilots on where to go and what targets to hit. In this case, the British forward air controller will have been asking the American forces to hit nearby targets. The co-ordinates of the target are read out by the forward air controller to the pilots, who reads them back to confirm before dropping a bomb.

WHERE WILL THE INVESTIGATION BEGIN?
The interaction between the British ground troops and the American pilots will have been preserved on the fighter jet's data recorder. This will yield clues as to whether there was a misunderstanding between the ground controller and the fighter crew.

"The whole procedure of summoning close air support, flying past to establish visual contact and then reading out and reading back the co-ordinates is a carefully rehearsed procedure which should be done by the book on every occasion," said Mr Ripley. "It will be pretty clear early on where something went wrong."

COULD FAULTY EQUIPMENT BE TO BLAME?
This is extremely unlikely, according to Mr Ripley. "Systems such as this are 99 per cent accurate and there are very few incidences of equipment failure compared with human error. It is possible something may have gone wrong with the bomb itself. If the fins were not attached properly at the air base, this may have caused the bomb to go off target."

WHAT ELSE COULD HAVE GONE WRONG?
Another possibility is that the co-ordinates for the attack location were wrong because of misinterpretation of the GPS equipment by the ground troops - a deadly mistake in which the British forces sealed their own fate.

A third explanation is that the US pilots entered the co-ordinates incorrectly into their own system, despite having read them back correctly over the radio. This possibility could be established by examining information from the fighter jet's data recorder.

COULD THIS BE A DELIBERATE ACT?
Each bomb has a blast radius within which casualties are likely even if they are not hit by the bomb itself.

Sometimes the Taleban are so close that it is impossible to bomb them without risking the lives of soldiers on the ground.

It is possible the British troops believed the risk of being hit by the bomb or its blast radius was less than the risk of being killed by nearby Taleban and that they ordered the American pilots to drop the bomb in a desperate bid to save themselves.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PILOTS NOW?
The pilots involved will now have to be interviewed at length to determine what went wrong.

WHAT WERE CONDITIONS LIKE AT THE TIME?
The area is "open and uncluttered", according to Mr Ripley, and it was not fully dark. "It is unlikely that poor visibility was a factor unless they had already dropped one bomb and the dust and debris from it obscured their vision."

He said the area was well known to all troops and was full of Taleban forces. "It is like the old Blackadder sketch - you just attack the same area again and again."


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Thanks Randy, It's a horrible story, and every loss is a grievous one for someone.

However, again, significant speculation "following reports a British soldier could be charged with manslaughter" beyond what was actually stated.

The statement we have here; my emphasis:
Quote:
A Ministry of Defence spokesman said: “The Royal Military Police Special Investigation Branch investigation into the deaths of three British soldiers, on Thursday, August 23, 2007, near Kajaki, Afghanistan, has concluded.

“The report has been passed to the chain of command for consideration.

If the matter is referred to the independent Army Prosecuting Authority, the authority will consider what, if any, action is to be taken.”

'When did you stop beating your wife' levels of interpretation.

I don't wish to research the matter further to find if there are further statements that have been made, it's not my concern. However it's up to all of us to evaluate the information we are given and make judgments about its reliability, not just liking it if it fits our preferences and howling about journalism when it doesn't.

Quote:
Certainly the "story" that the ground party was at fault isn't nearly as sensational as the "cowboy Americans" who "shoot first and think later", so it is not reported.

However neither the original report, as Bill pointed out, nor the later ones we have here (Written previous to Randy's post immediately above - fair comment in that case) are as sensationalist as Randy's normal quotes above. There's no 'pointed finger' of blame beyond the facts in that original report.

And we also don't yet know that the ground part are 'at fault', we do know that the Army investigation is concluded, most conclusions NOT being released, except that the US airmen were not regarded as at fault. All that's just honest analysis of available data.

Be that as it may, what is important here, IMHO, is to respect the feelings of loss and 'saddened' F-15 people.

Thanks Randy.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:17 pm 
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Randy Haskin wrote:
This is the story that ran in the UK press the day after the incident last year:

Which paper?

Quote:
Ian Davidson, the Labour MP for Glasgow South West and a member of the public accounts committee, said the delay had been partly down to a failure to agree technical standards for communications systems with the US military "A lot of the difficulty seems to be in co-ordinating with the Americans, especially given their more gung-ho style," he said.

Several British service personnel in Afghanistan echoed those concerns privately. "I just can't figure out how this has happened - how do you tell the families they were killed by supposed allies?" one soldier told The Scotsman.

Another said: "Whenever I hear we have American jets overhead, I get f****** worried. They just don't seem to know what they are doing a lot of the time."

A third said: "They have a different approach to us - they fire first and think later."

Three anonymous soldiers and an MP. It's painful, but I'm sure we could get a quote from a soldier to support any view, likwise an MP.

But then the Pentagon aren't helping, are they?
Quote:
And earlier this year, UK-US relations were strained when the Pentagon refused to give to a British coroner a cockpit tape from the US aircraft that killed Lance-Corporal Matty Hull of the Household Cavalry in Iraq in 2003. The tape was eventually leaked and submitted to the inquest, but the incident angered many UK service personnel.

Gerald Howarth, a Tory defence spokesman, warned that the US must offer "full co-operation" over the Afghan incident.

"The events around Matty Hull's death did real damage to public opinion in the UK, and that cannot be allowed to happen again," Mr Howarth said.

The destruction of trust between allies primarily serves the interest of their enemies, something, as shown here, the Pentagon sometimes do not rate highly enough, IMHO.

Sadly it remains that there will be soldiers killed by their own side, in the very nature of war, as several people have said above. And given the sizes of each nation's forces involved, even without any other factors, the larger US forces will be more likely, on probability, to be involved than other allies. The same issue was a factor in the Pacific war with relations between US forces and the British, Dutch, Australians and New Zealanders.

Regards,

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Situations like these are rarely as black and white as the media portrays. And the media's unjudgemental stance on delivering the news without the author opinionated bias is laughable at best.

I would be interested in knowing what equipment the Brits were using (if any) to direct the Strike Eagles. We had GPS system that if used properly would tell the operator the GPS coordinates of the target in question. The one problem with system was that when the batteries died and were changed. Once powered up again with satillites reaquired the system would reset and the GPS coordinates now displayed were the operator's and not the bad guys. If these were relayed to the bird via comms you can guess where the bombs are going.

Not a good situation to be in and I do beleive an incident similiar to what I described to did happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:10 pm 
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JDK wrote:
But then the Pentagon aren't helping, are they?


For some reason, the public feels like release of the cockpit tape is the end-all, be-all of the discussion. That if the HUD tape is released, then we'll finally know what happened once and for all.

On the contrary, the public seems to think that NOT releasing the tape indicates that something is being covered up.

Here's a news flash, people: military airplanes have capabilities that are secret, and governments want to keep secret. HUD tapes contain evidence of those capabilities, either by what is being said over the radio, by what is displayed on the screen, or what the airplane is actually doing on the tape. (BTW, If your response to this is to say "no there's not...", then the military has been doing its job well and you don't know about it.)

SOMETIMES, tapes can be edited or cleaned up for release. Sometimes they cannot. Either way, keeping state secrets is more important than making sure there is a perception in the public that there is full cooperation during an investigation. Control of HUD tapes is about keeping classified things classified -- not hiding "what happened" in an incident.

As an aside, tapes never tell the full story, ESPECIALLY for someone watching it who wasn't there. It provides a faithful audio recording of what was recieved inside that aircraft, but that's not always a perfect document of what was said or even what was heard. The video is another story. Sometimes it can give useful information and sometimes not.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:11 am 
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Hi Randy,
I think we can agree that neither of us are operating on a level of 'the public thinks'. I've never met the public, but their ability not to think frightens me.

I certainly am not assuming that there's some magic answer, and as a writer in the field of ex-military aviation, I've actually had to deal with things (relating to current military operations) I shouldn't publish and more often don't get told about the detail.

The issue I was pointing up wasn't that the Pentagon was (very reasonably) not prepared to release a militarily sensitive item to a civilian British coroner, but that there was, IIRC, a lack of co-operation between the US military as directed by the Pentagon, and the British military. I may not be remembering this correctly, to be fair.

Unfortunately, the the case of other inter-allied incidents (Canadian, British and Australian cases come to mind) the US military, or the Pentagon has not regarded peer-level (not public) co-operation in investigations as worth doing. Whether the reason for that is good military security, 'protecting our own', or any other reason, is irrelevant, as the result is what counts. Because of that, all forces allied to the US are aware that they may not be able to resolve problems to the best results for the joint military objectives. On that basis, it's tough being a US ally.

It is more than just a perception that from the point of view of US allies, the Pentagon level direction (including to the US military) hobbles, restricts and is counteractive to effective international co-operation - even without the normal military xenophobia about allies' reliability. This is in stark contrast to a much more open and better relationship built by the US in W.W.II with their allies then. Whatever the gee-whizzery of the current top secret widgets, the principles that should drive the effort to enabling good allies' support remain the same.

Be that as it may, I accept most of your points Randy, and I don't want to make a fuss of the principles over the far more tough-to-face issues of these tragic, accidental deaths, but if you (we) aren't fighting to protect these principles, then the battle's been lost. I do also appreciate you are a lot closer to it than me; and your expertise and insights.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:10 am 
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I'm not about to argue that the US DoD has always been an open and faithful partner to allies -- they haven't. However, based on what little experience I have with NATO over the last couple years, I think it is just the same way that the military departments of other countries also look out for their own interests first before those of their allies.

It's not easy to have to think of it that way, but that's just the facts.

I think it's an overstatement to claim that the Pentagon has not deemed it "worth" cooperating with other accidents. There is certainly a LOT of activity behind the scenes with those investigations that is not for public consumption. I don't know any particulars about any previous cases, but in my experience it is usually people outside of the military who complain about this lack of cooperation -- those who are wearing uniforms and actually engage in investigation aren't making claims of non-cooperation.

With the A-10 case, realize that there was full cooperation between the DoD and the MoD. It was the Coroner's investigation -- a civil legal process unrelated to the military -- that was not given access to the HUD tape. The DoD and MoD investigations both had access to the HUD tape.

Looking back at the F-16/Canada incident at Tarnak Farms in Afghanistan, there were two incident boards that were held, and information was shared between the two. Other than failing to present Canada with the pilots' heads on sticks, I have never heard any complaints about how things were handled during that incident.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:29 am 
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Shay wrote:
Situations like these are rarely as black and white as the media portrays. And the media's unjudgemental stance on delivering the news without the author opinionated bias is laughable at best.

I would be interested in knowing what equipment the Brits were using (if any) to direct the Strike Eagles. We had GPS system that if used properly would tell the operator the GPS coordinates of the target in question. The one problem with system was that when the batteries died and were changed. Once powered up again with satillites reaquired the system would reset and the GPS coordinates now displayed were the operator's and not the bad guys. If these were relayed to the bird via comms you can guess where the bombs are going.


For an interesting viewpoint on the incident, there is a TV show called "Ross Kemp In Afghanistan" that was shown in the UK earlier this spring.

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Ross Kemp is an actor who turned reality TV journalist and spent the summer with the Royal Anglian Regiment, the unit that my squadron and I supported in the summer of 2007 and whom the victims of the friendly fire incident belonged to.

The 4th episode covers the incident and the aftermath. There is video of the bomb impacting and some of what happened immediately afterward. There are also some very interesting interviews with fellow members of the Regiment after the event.

Many of us in the USAF were quite worried when we learned there was going to be an episode dedicated to the incident -- the press in the UK has traditionally been noticeably slanted against US military forces when things like this occur and we feared the worst. We were all absolutely floored when we saw what was broadcast -- a very fair and realistic account of what happened on the ground and what the ground troops really think of US fast jet close air support.

We had a fantastic relationship with these guys while we were working in Afghanistan. My fellow pilots/WSOs think of these guys on the ground like brothers and would do anything to keep them safe. It bothered me to think that those troops might stab us in the back when given the opportunity to do so by the UK press. When those Royal Anglian troops instead stuck the knife in the back of the press (which is sort of what happens on the show), and said they were grateful for US close air support...well, that just showed that they had the same feelings about us as we have about them.

The show is available for torrent download at various places on the internet, but not available on DVD in the US so far as I know. Part 4 is also viewable on YouTube. It's an excellent, excellent show. It's well worth your time to watch all 5 episodes if you have the time.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:03 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:49 pm
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
Glad to see it is possible to discuss this topic after all.


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