Skyraiders ...

Ken · **Posted:** Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:01 am

I believe this is the only grey castle window photo I have, don't recall the source, and I'm not sayin' I have the mac-daddy photo archive either. Letter on the cowl would indicate the 602nd ACS between 1964-66, I reckon.

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Nice! I was going to scan and post the one pic I have but it's going to look almost identical to that one.

Somewhere in my research I came across a camoed one that had the metaled-over back room in white or gray--obviously a replacement part. I don't remember if it was USAF or VNAF--I couldn't get the SN off the picture so I didn't put it on my log.

Ken · **Posted:** Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:44 am

Yes, I think there are several examples of rear canopy swaps to the point that it becomes difficult to say anything about a particular plane without the serial number. 132683, last with Danny Summers, is now with the Slattery collection. She appears to have come from Asia with a castle-window canopy and was restored with a blue room (it's just masking paper in the Chino photo) Photos from airliners.net

(and no antennas, Snake?)

Ken · **Posted:** Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:49 am

Can anyone say why these airplanes seemingly suffered from severe neglect once they arrived in the US? They supposedly sat, flyable and complete, with fresh paint in Thailand and, in short order looked like scrap. Thankfully all 4 were saved and are essentially complete now, but seems like a "trip around your elbow to get to your thumb" as they say in south AL.

Ken

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

132683, if that's its real number, was one of the training airplanes at Hurlburt, and at that time it had a blue back room. There's a pic of it on page 98 of Johnsen's Photo Chronicle book. (Man, my photo-database is handy!)

When USAF discontinued the Skyraider training program, most if not all of those airplanes went to VNAF, as USAF was then getting out of the Skyraider bidness. This one obviously did, and got the metaled-over back room somewhere along the line.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:36 pm

what a big assed beast. look at the single pilot & size of the spad for perspective!!!

Ken · **Posted:** Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:20 pm

Snake45 wrote:

132683, if that's its real number, was one of the training airplanes at Hurlburt

You doubt the number? It's flying on the west coast and I assume it's got a dataplate ... is there more to the story?

Ken

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Ken wrote:

Snake45 wrote:

132683, if that's its real number, was one of the training airplanes at Hurlburt

You doubt the number? It's flying on the west coast and I assume it's got a dataplate ... is there more to the story?

Ken

Didn't mean to imply anything. I was just reading the number off the tail in the photo and know that once in a while these numbers aren't "right," especially on warbirds. :wink:

SpadGuy · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Snake45 wrote:

132683, if that's its real number, was one of the training airplanes at Hurlburt, and at that time it had a blue back room. There's a pic of it on page 98 of Johnsen's Photo Chronicle book. (Man, my photo-database is handy!)

When USAF discontinued the Skyraider training program, most if not all of those airplanes went to VNAF, as USAF was then getting out of the Skyraider bidness. This one obviously did, and got the metaled-over back room somewhere along the line.

All, I flew 132683 during training ah Hurlburt in late summer 1971. That is the real number and I first got 'reacquainted' with her in summer 1998 in Arlington, WA after it had received its new VNAF paint scheme.

SpadGuy · **Joined:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:40 pm **Posts:** 19

Ken wrote:

I believe this is the only grey castle window photo I have, don't recall the source, and I'm not sayin' I have the mac-daddy photo archive either. Letter on the cowl would indicate the 602nd ACS between 1964-66, I reckon.

Regarding the letter on the cowl, from a crew chief who was there at the time, the 1st ACS and the 602nd FS(C) shared aircraft from the 34th Tac Grp pool of Skyraiders. The cowl letters denoted which maintenance 'flight' the aircraft belonged to. The large letter simply alerted the maintenance boys that a returning Skyraider (for which they had responsibility) was headed their way.

Ken · **Posted:** Thu May 01, 2014 7:58 am

Thanks Hook. There's never been a clear explanation & I won't bother recounting what the various sources have said both verbally and in print.

It has always been a puzzle that so many of those A-1E's wore numbers between 1-4 with no other obvious rhyme or reason. I will say that photos of A's & B's are far less common ...

Ken

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Ken wrote:

It has always been a puzzle that so many of those A-1E's wore numbers between 1-4 with no other obvious rhyme or reason.

Ken

I've logged a photo of 135007 where it has #4 on the cowling, and two other A-1Es in the same picture also have #4 on the cowling. :shock:

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

And speaking of "no rhyme or reason," I'm trying to figure out why many camoed VNAF A-1s had light-colored cowling parts--EITHER the cowl ring and the cowl flaps, OR the center panels alone, but never all three on the same airplane.

I say light-colored because in some cases they seem to be white, in others, they seem to just retain their original USN Gull/Gray/white or USAF Coin Gray paint.

I'll have to get more into that and see if these correspond with particular units, or something.

Ken · **Posted:** Thu May 01, 2014 9:17 am

So many VNAF airplanes were done this way that it was surely intentional. I'll wait for more expert opinions, but my theory is that it was an easy recognition feature when airborne since two air forces were operating otherwise identical airplanes in the same combat theatre.

Ken

Snake45 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:49 pm **Posts:** 864

Snake45 wrote:

I'm also still trying to find out if any EA-1Fs (AD-5Qs) got into USAF or VNAF service. I've got the complete BuAer number list of them but so far haven't found one pic of one. Joe Baugher lists one as going to VNAF (132576) but no details. I did read recently that by the time the VN war started heating up, the Navy only had 24 EA-1Fs in the entire fleet. These were also the last A-1s flown by the USN in Southeast Asia, after they had retired the Hs and Js from combat.

Based on the number of pics I've studied and airframes I've logged, statistically, I should have seen four or more ex-EA-1Fs in USAF or VNAF service by now. But I've still got one more book to go through, and I just ordered another one, so who knows, I might turn up one yet. :wink:

Okay, I've now compared the list of all 54 AD-5Q (EA-1F) BuNos against both the USAF and VNAF lists in the back of the Mutza book.

I found NO AD-5Qs on the USAF list.

I found a grand total of three on the VNAF list:

132575

132576 (Also noted as going to VNAF on the Joe Baugher list.)

132618

Nine of the AD-5Qs are on the Baugher list as either being lost in USN service or surviving in museums.

Statistically, it's not unusual that I haven't found any photos of three individual airplanes. (It was statistically unusual that I hadn't found any photos of 45 particular airplanes. I should have seen at least three or four if a significant portion of those 45 had gone to USAF or VNAF.)

So the jury's still out. At this time, all I can say is that it doesn't look like too many Qs/EA-1Fs got converted back into straight mud-movers for the VN war.

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