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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:51 pm 
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While my MBA-speak teed up the root cause and alternatives, bluehawk15 nailed the next step.

Determine and move the CAF forward to the next step in its maturity as an organization...

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:11 pm 
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I just wish this thread would not keep going to the top. I don't know which is worse, this or "Enola Gay is going to fly this Summer."

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:13 pm 
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bluehawk15 wrote:
Don't take the CAF back, move it forward!


As I am not a member of the CAF I have refrained from buying into this dispute, and dont intend to do so now.

The election and employment of CAF Directors and Staff iand even policy/procedures and future directions are all an issue for the CAF Members and I do understand the concerns about internal disputes being aired here in WIX however I think its reasonable to permit a thread about the issues facing a large volunteer run warbird operator as long as the posts are honest and not libelous?

The CAF has had its problems over the years, a rash of unfortunate crashes, struggles with funding, disposal of aircraft and the recent P-82 dispute. Were it a privately owned organisation most of the details behind those situations would remain behind closed doors, but for a volunteer organisation there are benefits in allowing open exposure of problems so that members can make their own informed decisions, a volunteer group needs the ongoing support of its members and needs to be able to attract new members.

It might be argued that dirty linen scares of existing members, new members and sponsors, but so too does whisper campaigns and unresolved accusations.

The CAF has recently disposed of some unviable aircraft, implemented the tramp-stamps to try and promote the CAF brand and existance to the public, sponsors and possible new members?, these are contentious with some members but some decisions are painful.

The CAF appears? to have shown the museum couldnt legally seperate itself from the CAF, the links to the youtube videos allow members to make up their own mind, and this thread on WIX have provided that access, I had a look at the "Take Back the CAF" website but didnt notice it linked there?

The procedural powers of the General Staff to appoint a President, to transfer or concentrate powers, to sack members of the General Staff or Museum curators, or simply remove people from the CAF membership are all issues that do deserve scrutiny and confirmation there is compliance with the CAF rules, but that really is an issue for the CAF Members themselves.

I'm not a member of the CAF but have admired its achievements from afar for over 35 years, it has single handly put the warbird hobby on its feet with its efforts from the 1950's to preserve and fly an example of each US combat aircraft, its involvement in supporting the BoB filming in the 1960's which also did much to push along the cause of aircraft preservation etc. by promoting the historical importance.

Today the CAF are operating two B-17's, one of only two B-24's still flying, and the sole flying B-29, 4 heavy WW2 bombers! the only other organisations to ever fly more of those particular types of aircraft have been Government airforces such as the RAF or USAF! - not a bad effort for a bunch of volunteers!

And so let those CAF members with honest concerns be permitted to air them, transparancy and open replies to those concerns by the CAF administration can only make the CAF better and stronger, even though it can be frustrating to those who think they are already doing an acceptable job.

But those opposing the current administration should ensure their efforts are taking the CAF forward, not backwards- it now has to compete and operate in a 21st century environment for members and sponsors.

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Mark Pilkington

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:29 am 
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Rauhbatz wrote:
Fredrick Nietschze once said "...the reason the political battles are so fierce in academia is that the stakes are so small." My MBA captial finance advisor used this quote to describe the notorious level of infighting in most not-for-profit organizations.

I thought it was Kissinger. Seems I was also (probably) wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_Law

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:42 am 
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Thanks for the link...guess my retention of modern philosiphers (Kant, Kierkegard, etc) was replaced with learning how to fly ADF approaches during my instrument training! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:46 am 
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Comment deleted. Sorry I was being a little harsh. :oops:

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Last edited by Robbie Stuart on Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Rauhbatz wrote:
Thanks for the link...guess my retention of modern philosiphers (Kant, Kierkegard, etc) was replaced with learning how to fly ADF approaches during my instrument training! :lol:

I just couldn't see Nietzsche having such an insight in such an area... :shock:

Not that I've ready any, but I've looked at the piktures.

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:17 am 
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To address why I am on here, No I certainly did not start this thread. In fact, I didn’t even know WIX existed – naive as that may seem, being an L-5 pilot – but my warbird world has been strictly within the CAF. I have known more about the management of the the CAF over the years than most members would because my husband Hal, was on the general staff for many years and he was the founding president of the museum.

It was brought to my attention that this subject was being discussed by all of you, and a thread set up for this purpose, so I logged on and followed the comments. While I could certainly tell you were intelligent minds with signs of critical thinking, it was clear to me that you were uninformed of certain basic truths on the subject. With successive posts I would say to myself, “well that’s not true”, “no, that’s not the correct picture” My intention to join in on your group was merely to inform, as the frustration from my point is huge knowing the only information a CAF member gets comes from CAF headquarters, and there is obviously CAF members here and CAF interest.

I will not rehash my first blog entry. You can go back and read it again if you like. But I must comment on the clear misconception that runs throughout about the governance of the museum as it relates to authority.

I think a good way is to simply copy here Hal’s letter of recommendation to Tami posted on Linkedin.com. http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewPro ... AL-profile It would be worth your time to go there and also read all the 24 letters of recommendation as well as Tami’s bio and credentials. It gives you a clear understanding of the museum board’s fierce fight to preserve what was.

“In the late 1980’s the Confederate Air Force realized it had in its possession the largest collection of WWII artifacts in existence. The governing board for which I was chief of staff, along with the founding father of the organization, Lloyd Nolen, realized these priceless artifacts were in fact greater than the CAF, as they represented the story and sacrifice of all Americans during that great period of American history. The artifacts were neglected and it was our duty to honor them with the prestige and care equal to their importance.

I, along with Lloyd Nolen, was tasked to find that special person whose talent and integrity rivaled the task at hand. Tami O’Bannion was selected for the job. The primary, fundamental reason for this selection; her unquestionable passion for preserving the history of WWII through the non-flying assets of the CAF. In 1990 an independent corporate structure was formed and the American Air Power Heritage Museum was born, with Tami O’Bannion as Director. With independence came the authority for Tami to fly – and fly she did.

Over the next 20 years it has been my great privilege to watch the fruits of this decision grow. I must say, my decision to place Tami in the position as the ultimate caregiver of this priceless collection of WWII history is one of the smartest moves I have ever made, and one I am most proud of. The proof is in what you see today.

Due to the vision and leadership skills of Ms. O’Bannion, The American Airpower Heritage Museum is now a 6 million dollar entity, fully accredited by the American Association of Museums. It enjoys Smithsonian equal status to share artifacts. I have served as a board member of the AAHM for much of the past 20 years and therefore have seen first hand in intimate detail Tami’s leadership abilities.

Tami is a true visionary, with adherence to quality and integrity unparallel. Her ability to gain the trust and support of many foundations in the Permian Basin, endowments, and secure state funding has insured the safety and security of the AAHM for generations. Tami does not have the word “status quo” in her vocabulary. She is driven to improve, foresee, and implement new and exciting programs and artifact acquisition displays, always with the true mission at the core of her endeavors. Integrity, creativity, and uncompromising resolve for the protection of the pubic trust best sums up Ms. O’Bannion. Her excellence is achieved by constantly striving to please her toughest critic – herself."

Harold A. Fenner, M.D. Founding President, Sec/Tresurer, American Airpower Heritage Museum, Commemorative Air Force
managed Tami at CAF Airpower Museum July 16, 2010


To put things in prospective, while you are on www.Linkedin.com view Steve Brown’s cradentials and experience for running a museum. Jeff Wood, the now interim museum director is also there. Jeff is the one thread of museum knowledge left, as whatever he knows Tami taught him.

The CAF director and the museum director have always had signed agreements to work together towards the common overall mission, but the CAF director has never been Tami’s boss. I will venture to say, based on the museum she created, didn’t need one. To her and Bob Rice the past CAF director’s credit, no one would ever know, as they worked seamlessly together. Bob was a gentleman and respected Tami’s ability, profession, and the fact that her intity (the non-flying assets) was a different part of the mission than his, yet equally important. He knew they were peers.

No one ever said the museum could survive without the support of the CAF, nor would it ever want to, they are a team. And I am just speculating, but I would say there may not be much contravery over the CEO of the CAF being over the 3 corporations – but the museum is different because it is the care of the non-flying assets. The grants that support the museum are given with the specific purpuse of the museum, not the CAF. The endowment donor individuals gave to the museum, not the CAF. And the artifacts themselves #1 were given to the American people as an irrevocable gift to the public trust when the museum was formed to be a true accredited bound museum instead of a collection of relics. #2 only a small percentage of the donated artifacts came from CAF members in the first place. The vast majority cames from the pivate sector.

The accreditation standards are very good standards to protect and sustain a museum over time. These standards concern independent governance, professional staff and director, and independent board of directors who wear the hat of the museum, not the CAF, while sitting on that board. Tami can recite these standards by heart. She had held meticulously to them for 20 years.

The idea that the CEO of the CAF has to be over the museum to “move the CAF in a positive direction” really holds no merit other than it sounds catchy. The CAF is the airplanes, the museum is the artifacts, and the sound constructive reasons they were separate are just as valid today as they were 20 years ago. Protection and a check and balance doesn’t change.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:23 am 
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Just curious if there are other organizations where the museum and flying divisions are separate (Collings, Chino, etc)...

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:59 am 
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Good question, and one that any good lawyer would ask. All one has to do is read the primary documents and ample reports that make up the corporate record of the museum... as I have since Hal has kept them all since Day 1.

Yes, the corporate structure and governance style for this museum relative to the CAF is unique and distinctive. Hasn't the CAF always BLAZED NEW TRAILS?! I find such logic faulty that presumes fault/guilt with anything associated with new and innovative? The museum as restructured in 1989 worked for 20 years until the rug was pulled out from under it by those hired to balance a budget of another company.

So I credit the vision of our founder and wisdom of the leadership at the time who spun it off because they recognized the neglect suffered by non-flying assets whenever the flying assets needed a new engine. Two different industries whose pots of charitable gifts should NOT be co-mingled to serve either whenever priorities change.

The museum was spun off as a separate non-profit with autonomous staff and sovereign governance to protect against such neglect AND work cooperatively with CAF. Again, it worked for 20 years, and was well positioned to enter into a season of endowment campaign to ensure its sustainability that would have relieved CAF HQ from any/all "subsidy." In my mind, despite the HUGE amount of energy that has been spent on this topic, there is STILL no answers to the basic question: WHY?

Truly, as much as we love our warbirds, it would be tragic a thing to see a day when a well-intentioned but ill-informed administration would step 25 years BACKWARDS when "keep 'em flying" again justified neglect of non-flying assets to buy a new engine. How tragic to render a national treasure unsustainable, at the beck and call of another whose financial need justifies anything that can be spun. Tragic to render the museum to just another revenue stream and an educational "prop" to feed CAF ends. Transformational? I say that's backwards, expedient, cowardly... anything but honorable and constructive.

No, I am not aware of any other aviation museum in the country that brings more educational value (beyond the wow factor of the airplanes) to its patrons, or that is (was) as well-positioned for the long haul to maintain the public's support and trust than this one. Even elites in the museum industry have said as much. Perhaps that is the answer to the "why"?

Perhaps financial need, coupled with ill-informed direction, lack of vision and simple ignorance of the museum biz explains the thinking behind "transforming" one of the best aviation museums in the country to an indentured servant of the CAF.


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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:37 am 
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Very well said, Diane. Few, if any, know the in-depth history of the CAF better than you and Hal. Therefore, your insight into the subject is truly valuable. I just can't wait until this situation resolves itself in the direction that is best for the organization.

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:41 am 
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Bill Greenwood wrote:
There were some of the old guys that were not always friendly, if you were perceived as an outsider, and still may be. I recall once going to look at a P-47 that needed restoration. I asked to sit in it, and was refused by the old relic that was standing beside it in his uniform, and shooing away any of the young people that got near. I was a CAF life member, a warbird pilot and owner, though I don't wear the uniform -- I've known and like Joe Cowan for years and never before heard anything not positive about Hal Fenner.


Hi there Bill Greenwood! Glad to see you are still alive and well. Years ago Hal would tell me, "That Bill Greenwood adds so much to the CAF." Hal was one of the old guys who could have cared less if you wore the uniform.


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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:52 am 
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I just wanted to offer some words of encouragement. I don't have a horse in the race, and I don't know any details at all. But to the CAf members that are trying to do what is right for their organization and to the members flying, crewing, and maintaining them. Thank you. I hope this all gets sorted out, and you guys can just go to business as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:56 am 
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I think as everyone gets wrapped up in change, it is important to take a critical look at the baby before we through out the bath water. There was some real wisdom in our past.


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 Post subject: Re: Take Back the CAF
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:17 am 
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Oh yeah. I agree. I didn't mean to sound as if I was taking a side, just offering words of encouragment for all.

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