Bearcat Accident in Breckenridge, 4/4/12

[Xrayist]

Mr. Dickey

I must voice my great dismay, almost disgust, in your post. You are claiming to be an eyewitness to a tragedy that affects many people who knew and loved Howard, especially his family. You say you have information that may really help with the family's coping with what happened, but apparently deem yourself too important to waste your time contacting the authorities and feel that they should contact you.
You are going to "stand your ground and take your knowledge to the grave" (real senistive choice of words by the way, pat yourself on the back for that one) and possibly continue to deny the family some closure.
I am really hoping I don't see your photo in some checkout stand rag, and that you are just trying to get to the top of the "I know something you don't, neener, neener, neener" hill that seems so prevelant in this as well as other forums.
Sleep well tonight and continue to tell yourself how important you are and that you may be the only person that could help Howard's family get through this situation more easily if only the proper authorities would seek you out.

[Wildchild]

Sorry that you think it's good they didn't take any photo's Mr Dickey, but a photo of the wreckage or a video of the crash could help us alot.

Also, since you were an eyewitness, how much was the aircraft destroyed, and could he have bailed out? (I ask about the plane because if it's fixable it can be rebuilt to honor him)

~Chris

[airnutz]

Wow...those last two posts were a bit rough. Can we exercise a bit of decorum here gentlemen? Let the man mourn his loss and gather his wits. Jeez we haven't even had the funeral or recieved an accurate(apparently) preliminary investigation report.

[DB2]

Steve - I agree you need to reach out to the NTSB or whoever is in charge and tell them what you saw. I was involved in a similar accident some years ago, and my interaction with the Feds did not leave me with a great impression. They just wanted to shut the book as quickly as possible, especially since they had a fatal business jet accident hanging over them. (In fact, the investigators exact words were "this case doesn't rate enough horsepower," even though the family's lives were severely impacted.)

Based on my experience, in the Fed's eyes the facts are 1) 77 year old pilot, 2) 67 year old high performance airplane with a prototype designation, 3) pilot known for flying aggressively, 4) one witness states pilot was flying aggressively, 5) pilot only killed himself, no one else hurt....therefore, case closed. It's clear from the prelim that the investigator isn't paying attention, as it is physically impossible for a Bearcat to go from upright level at 100 to 200 feet to inverted at 500 feet.

So, I would encourage you to help set the facts straight, even if we don't agree with the answer in the end. At least you will know you did what you could to help provide an accurate picture of what happened.

[Steve Pierce]

So how is Steve stepping forward gonna help you guys and the family. The family knows what happened. Howard is gone and we all have to deal with that. Some government investigators version of what happened isn't gonna mean squat to anyone. I am glad there are no pictures. I want to remember Howard and the Bearcat the way I saw them on a regular basis, not as only my imagination can envision the end. Enough people saw it that if the NTSB really wants to publish the facts they will but from my own experience they have their own agenda. Howard was a good pilot with a lot of experience and loved his airplanes. He was somewhat gruff and dry at times, loved his dogs and Carolyn. I will always remember him. He went out with his boots on it was just unfortunate that my favorite airplane went as well.

[Tim Savage]

Like so many others I had vowed to not post here...but seriously.... Guys..let's cut Steve some slack here. Unlike most of us who knew Howard, Steve works at Breckenridge and certainly had a lot more interaction with him than the rest of us. His emotions are understandably raw.

I also recently witnessed the fatal Warbird accident of a former client and even though it has been almost two years it still replays in my head occassionally. Give him some time to process this.

Those of you clamouring for pictures and video have obviously never experienced this happening to someone you know or you wouldnt be asking. Additionally, anyone who has any clue about this type of high impact accident wouldnt be asking about the wreckage and whether it can be restored.

Just my two cents. Be supportive and respectful of the folks at Breckenridge.

[Scott Rose]

I agree with Tim, we need to sit back, calm down on the speculation and wait for the official report or at least some accurate information. Sitting back and speculating, especially in a public forum can not lead to good things. So please, be respectful and think before you post.

[Mark Allen M]

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Last edited by Mark Allen M on Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Jack Cook]

I sent xrayist a PM yesterday and of course it went nowhere so I the spirit of Tim I'll put it here.
Jack signing off..........................................

Steve Dickey is one of the good ones! He lives in Breckenridge,
works for Nelson and Dude, has know Howard for years and has
worked alot on the F8F. Cut him a little slack! His reasons for
being quiet are of a personal nature rather than one of self promotion!

[CAPFlyer]

Jack, there's a difference between being quiet for personal reasons and allowing the NTSB and one pilot to trash the reputation of a great man. As I said, as hard as it is, you have to make sure they get it right. What they put in words is what will be the "official record". If you know something and then don't tell them and let them report his death wrong and create the wrong impression of who he was to those who didn't know him, I would consider that a bigger insult to Howard and his family than anything.

I lost a guy who I didn't know all that well, but liked a LOT and had just a few days before met his very young son and wife. The other crewman wasn't killed, but I know he was pretty badly affected by the accident, especially in the first few days after the accident. You could see it on his face. We were all stunned and we all took several weeks/months to really process it. But we knew that the most important thing for everyone was to talk to the NTSB and make sure that everything got done right, no matter how bad it might make any individual look. As it ended up, the captain messed up and it bit them. But they weren't the first to do it, they weren't the first to crash, and the accident finally got some needed changes made to the airplanes.

[Jack Cook]

difference between being quiet for personal reasons and allowing the NTSB and one pilot to trash the reputation of a great man

Geez-a-loo! I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I don't see anyone trashing anybody!

I sent xrayist a PM yesterday and of course it went nowhere

BTW that jab was directed at the wix PM system which has the agility and speed of Aunt Millie's old plow horse!

[CAPFlyer]

difference between being quiet for personal reasons and allowing the NTSB and one pilot to trash the reputation of a great man

Geez-a-loo! I think you're putting the cart before the horse. I don't see anyone trashing anybody!

Jack, read Steve's first post and read the "preliminary" report. There are things that just don't add up in the narrative of what happened and from what Steve's saying, it sounds like there's more to it (i.e. motivation of the "witness pilot").

For example, the NTSB preliminary says that the pilot was known for flying "aggressive aerobatics". I never saw any "aggressive" maneuvers done by Howard. Aggressive is a term used, especially by the FAA and NSTB, to describe someone who pushed a plane beyond its limits or took unreasonable risks. Howard was not an aggressive pilot and his airshows were the perfect demonstration of that.

[Jack Cook]

the NTSB preliminary says that the pilot was known for flying "aggressive aerobatics".

Am I blind or just have very poor vision??? All I see for a description is this....

The commercial pilot

Thank you Vlado for saying this!

However, this is 'preliminary' and thus we need to wait for final investigation.

[Speedy]

The sad part about NTSB preliminary reports is that often the are just a 'check in the box' to get the process started. I will echo everyone who says give them time to conduct the investigation--which could take months--and wait for the final report.

That being said, sometimes even the final report is written to smooth things over instead of really identifying and stating what happened. Case in point was a warbird crash some 20 years ago where the pilot's final words over the radio were taken one way (to be a mechanical issue) when in reality it was another (a physiological issue). Even though most of the people 'in the know' identified what really happened, the report was written to reflect the former instead of the latter. In the end, the result was the same...the owner/pilot did not survive.

In talking with a very well-known and respected mechanic who assisted in the investigation, his comment was "What good would it have served? Nothing. The family knew, in fact they were the ones who pointed out the physiological issues in the first place." The bottom line is that the report was written in a way that made it easier to settle the estate. It wasn't a lie. It was just an interpretation that suited the purpose.

We may never know what happened on Tuesday, other than the Warbird community lost a good friend.

Blue Skies, Howard.

[steve dickey]

For those that really know me I have really thick skin and it takes a lot of "neener, neener, neenering" to chap my hide!(xrayist! ) I didn't say I had pic's of the crash but a pic on the takeoff roll long before the crash. Oh and BTW xrayist I have spoken to the family including the widow, just so happens I have personal cell #'s to boot,(and today I was able to give the widow an enlargement of the last ever picture of her husband, she was absolutly thrilled!!) so its not like I was withholding info from the family

That info did not need to be typed in that first post, as I deemed it not important to the post on the last page, but
on your behalf I will here.
So for your benefit I have been in contact with the feds today, really surprised someone was there
with the holiday and all!
And will have an interview come Tuesday as tomorrow will be extremely busy with the services.

Thanks to all who got my back, pretty cool knowing that the ones who don't snide about it are your real friends!