Warbird Information Exchange

Press Release from NWM:
https://www.facebook.com/warplanemuseum ... =1&theater

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Not good.

Has anybody heard (or is willing to say here) what B-17 insurance rates have done since the 909 accident?

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Raised significantly - some in the neighborhood of 300% to 400%. I have a feeling that we will be seeing much fewer B-17's flying from this point forward.

Will they all be static display by the end of 2020? Yankee Lady next??

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Ain't no sunshine when she's gone!

Maybe comparing apples and oranges, but does the insurance rate for all P-51s go up if one crashes? I know insurance company policies are very arbitrary, but I would think that the results of the accident investigation should be more of a factor than simply tarring all of a given type with the same brush.

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I am but mad north-north-west: when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw.

The beginning of the end....

No, I don't think so. In my opinion, the "grounding" of Thunderbird and the Movie Memphis Belle was primarily due to the large increase in insurance rates and reduced coverage. There will still be several B-17's flying and giving rides as some groups have less of a problem with finances. I believe that the insurance hikes will "cull the herd", so to speak, and ground those groups that typically make a marginal profit from B-17 rides or those that don't have a lot of monetary sponsorship behind them.

Honestly, I don't blame the insurance companies. I blame individuals and lawyers trying to squeeze the insurance companies for money that will never replace their loved ones. The money has to come from somewhere and insurance companies are only passing on the pain that is being felt. It may take a few years, but times will change at some point and either the justice system, or the insurance system, or something will likely give and make it possible to fly again, but who knows how many years in the future that will be. It the planes are preserved properly, and at least a few pilots are able to stay current on one or two, there's hope.

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

From my discussions with people in the insurance industry, insurance rates are not typically driven up by a single, solitary event, unless it is a catastrophic type one that has an impact in the multi-millions or greater. There have been several P-51 crashes in the last few years, and those events, by themselves, have not been responsible for insurance increases. Those events, however, when combined with other high payout events, can and do influence the underwriters who set the terms for coverage. The insurance rates for all warbirds was on the rise prior to the Collings crash due to reasons not associated with any warbird crash. Unfortunately, the Collings crash, along with other high payout events, will increase rates and reduce coverage. We are just now beginning to see the effects of this. Unfortunately, it will get worse before it gets better.

What is the ownership situation of MMB? If National Warplane Museum doesn't "sponsor" it, is there no chance of it flying?

That leaves us very low on B-17's

Aluminum Overcast, Sentimental Journey, Yankee Lady, Texas Raiders, and Ye Olde Pub? Only 5?!?!

From what I heard the future was looking bright for Fuddy Duddy and Miss Angela in the 5 year range. Sad that this might change now. Collings new bird might be the last one back in the sky for the foreseeable future.

Wow, first Thunderbird and now this...
If a Mustang crashes, it only takes two people with it, at the most (assuming it doesn't hit anyone on the ground). 909 had over a dozen people on board and all of them could have perished.
Think of all the people who can say they've flown in a B-17, and those who can say they've flown in a P-51. The latter number is way lower than the former, for many reasons.

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Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

The "Movie Memphis Belle" is still owned by the Tallichet estate. The Tallichet group just leased their B-17 to the National Warplane Museum group for their use for the past few years. This is nothing unusual, as prior to the NWM's care, the Tallichet group leased MMB to the Liberty Foundation after the "Liberty Belle" B-17 got destroyed. I know that the Tallichet group desires to keep their B-17 flying in some form. If I were to hazard a guess, I would bet that the Tallichet group leases the MMB to either another group, organization, or museum with the proviso that the aircraft is flown in at least a semi-regular basis.

Don't fret about the B-17 situation, though. There are at least, what, 5 to 7 B-17's undergoing restoration right now to flying condition? So, despite this temporary setback in the numbers B-17's flying on "active status", I would say the future is actually bright for the B-17 type specifically, imo.

5 in the States and Sally B. To think a number years ago there were 13 and with the restorations going on, there was a possibility of having 17 flyers. Wow, things have changed.

If the insurance companies make it to expensive to carry passengers, you might only see the heavies at the major shows.
And as we know, once a plane sits for any length of time, it's hand to get it back in the air.

Maybe these are the "Good old days".

Phil

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A man's got to know his limitations.

Thanks for the info about MMB. Glad to know the Tallichet estate wants to find the right caregivers.

True about the restorations. Just doesn't seem like too many of them are close to flying like Fuddy Duddy and Miss Angela that probably just need to be run through to get them going again. Miss Angela might need a little more, but I digress.