Stukas Anyone?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:13 pm

Im still waiting for an original to get up in the air but .....sigh...... still to no avail yet. However I really do enjoy the Langhurst 7/10ths Replica. Are the plans for this aircraft still around in case someone wanted to build one (or a squadron) themselves? As far as scaled down replicas go, this one takes the cake.

http://www.aerialperspectives.org/2010Airshows-1/The-Great-Central-Maine/The-Great-Central-Maine/13247173_XctDMs#961909474_aqaX8

I also noticed that the Yugoslav Aeronautical Museum (in that crazy geodesic museum of theres) has an original JU-87 there restoring.
Museum Site: http://www.mjrv.mod.gov.rs/
JU-87: http://www.mjrv.mod.gov.rs/pages_files/parter_files/partexpo/stuka_files/stuka.html

Im a little surprised since the tail is finished and on display..... in German Markings! I'd have thought for sure they'd paint her in Yugoslav markings.

Thought you'd all enjoy. Still hoping for a real JU-87 to take to the skies one day. But i'd settle for more Langhurst replicas or full scale new builds to the same caliber as the Stormbirds 262s or Flug Werk 190's.

Speedy · **Posted:** Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:06 pm

Funny how even a 3/4 scale looks big.

The first time I saw the one at RAF Hendon I was literally agape at how huge the Stuka is. In fact, both Hacker and I were agreed that the sheer size alone would be intimidating to see screaming down at you. Add the 'sirens' to it, and I can see how it would terrify people.

Really a very cool airplane to see in person, though. One of the definite highlights of my trip 'across the pond'.

Steve T · **Posted:** Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:27 pm

I've managed to see both complete museum Stukas, the G at Hendon and the R at the Chicago Museum of Science & Industry...got to tip the hat to whomever was director or curator at Chicago in the late 40s, having the foresight to get and keep not only the Stuka but an early mark Spitfire; both aircraft are not only structurally all-original but both retain the paint they wore at war's end!

Years ago in an antique market here in Ontario I ran across an old B&W photo showing what was plainly the Chicago Ju87R, parked in front of what was equally plainly a BCATP hangar. It had long been thought that a captured Ju87 had come to Canada during the war, but no photo had surfaced to prove it, until someone, instead of throwing this pic out, decided to try selling it in an antique store, where it caught my attention. Some time I'll post it on Photobucket (along with a few other oddball old airplane pix I've collected over the years). Very cool to know the war prize Stuka that made it to Canada still survives in Chicago, and in such original shape.

S.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:40 am

I've seen the Chicago Stuka a number of times, and it's always impressive. Although some may complain that it looks a bit shabby, I'm glad it's been preserved rather than restored (I think it would be neat if someone added some reproduction wheel pants, though.) I don't know if that's the result of any particular intentional foresight..most of the aircraft in the Musuem of Science and Industry were simply put on display as-is. Since it's not an aircraft museum, I don't know if any thought was given to restoring them. I understand the Stuka did get some repair work in the 70s after falling from the ceiling, but I'm not sure how much (if any) of it was repainted. The prop certainly looks pristine, so it may have been refurbished at some point.

Here's a pic scanned from the old Aero Publishers monograph on the Stuka. It appears to be the Chicago machine at the time of its capture. The wheel pants have already been removed, but appear to be laying underneath the aicraft. Steve, does your photo show the Stuka as having wheel pants when it was in Canada?

SN

Chappie · **Joined:** Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:40 am **Posts:** 987

I've always liked the look of the "Shh-tuka", I even built the Monogram kit when I was about 6 years old. Is there any possibility of a Stuka becoming airworthy?

Chappie

PbyCat-Guy · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:53 pm

If there are plans for a scale Stuka, that would be awesome! I'd be willing to build one. There's a brass 1/16th scale model of the stuka, has all the formers and stringers and skins. One of those kits they send you one section per week over a few months time span. Maybe this could be used to make a larger flyable replica?

Cherrybomber13 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:56 pm

All depends on how much money you want to toss someones way, with the right number of 0000's any thing can be built

seriously that would be a show stopper at oshkosh... imagine the impression you could make diving in with the sirens wailing...

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:39 pm

Depending on how you cherry-pick your criteria, the Junkers Ju 87 is the most under-represented of major historic types of W.W.II or (arguably again) all aviation / military history. The Ju 87 was an integral element of the German concept of Blitzkreig as a specific type, rather than being the type to hand to fill a standard role (which most fighters and bombers were) and as such was a key tool in changing the face of warfare in 1939-40. It's often overlooked that as a ship destroyer it was among the most effective in tonnage sunk; while the often made claim that it was obsolete due to vulnerability to fighters from the Battle of Britain onward applies just as much to all dedicated bombers without air superiority cover.

Currently there are only two on public display in the world, plus a couple of partial wrecks and no airworthy or likely airworthy restorations. Very poor for such a significant type.

Although an understandably demonised machine, it is interesting that it has a role in popular culture. CGI Stukas appear in the relatively recent film Captain Corelli's Mandolin, while the Germans made a wartime film about the crews and aircraft, and there was a Stuka song in the Nazi era; the Stukalied. In modern times there has been reference in rock music (Primal Scream) a sculpture made from carpet of all things.

And of the Richard Scarry fans, who can forget 'Wrong Way Roger' in his red & toothed Stuka?

http://www.citizenlunchbox.com/famous/critters-S-Z.html

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:11 pm

Quote:

CGI Stukas appear in the relatively recent film Captain Corelli's Mandolin

And even more prominently in "Emeny At The Gates," along with some CGI Ju-88s..another severely under-represented type. Like the Stuka, there are only two complete examples on display in the world, but fortunately there are several more under restoration.

SN

Steve T · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:33 pm

Achtung folks!

Found the CD with the digitized Stuka pic and it's now on P'bucket, so here it is. The prop has indeed seen some repair work, as can be discerned! Wheel pants nope, BTW, at least circa 1945 when this pic was probably taken. Canopy glass nope either. Incidentally I've heard she's got replacement wheels...from a Texan!...the originals having suffered damage when she "deadsticked" onto the museum floor decades ago.

Talking of Ju88s, there's a nightfighter variant in the background of this other pic (taken at Wunstorf, Germany, in May 1945). The other two vanquished warbirds are a Bf109 and an Italian SM82 Canguro transport. If only, eh...

S.

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:46 pm

Thanks Steves!

I'm not worried about an "Emeny at the Gates" as if they're that lisdexic they probably can't get in... :lol:

Cheap jokes aside, thanks for the ref to the film, but it sounds pretty iffy - did you see it Steve?

Good spot as to the relative rarity comparison of the Ju 88, a good point. Certainly the 88 is another under-represented, versatile and important type - I'd also love to see a flyer. There are more wrecks being rebuilt than there are Ju 87s, and we'll see more in preservation as complete aircraft than we have seen Ju 87s.

However the difference between the Ju 88 and the Ju 87 in historic significance to me was that there was no alternatives or other aircraft doing the Ju 87's job as a Stuka in 1939-40, and that job enabled the development of the Blitzkrieg type of warfare. While no one would dispute the Ju 88's versatility and its crews achievements, even as a Schnellbomber there were other types aircraft undertaking the role - and Schnellbombers were not critical in developing a new, successful form of warfare.

Steve T - great pics, thanks. We do have a SM 82 in preservation, thankfully, although only the one (at the Italian Air Force Museum). There's another model Ju 88 night fighter in the RAF Museum, and a number of Bf 109Gs preserved and some of those are and have been flyers. So yes, more would be great, but we aren't 'bereft' either!

Regards,

ALOHADAVE · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:54 pm

Crash-site location of 13 Stukas?

On August 15, 1939, I./St.G.76 led by Hauptmann Sigel and I./St.G.2"Immelmann" under Hauptmann Hitschold, were ordered to demonstrate dive-bombing on the Neuhammer range to Generals von Manstein, von Richthofen, Sperrle and Loerzer.
Over Neuhammer, which is at 137 metres elevation, it was 7/10 cloudy above 900 metres, but underneath it was clear. A ground mist suddenly developed but Gruppe was not informed. Sigel with his I./St.G.76, started their dive through cloud. At the last moment Sigel saw the danger, radioed a warning, and pulled up from close to the ground. But 13 Stukas with 26 crew members crashed without survivors. Eleven Stukas went straight in, while two hit the ground during pull-out. The Immelmann Gruppe saw the danger and returned to base.

Neuhammer, now called Świętoszów, is in the lower Silesian Voivodeship, 125 kms west of the regional capital, Wroclaw, Poland.
You could go to 13 in one shot. The chances are, surely, that the aircraft remains are still in situ. I'll even give you the coodinate: 51deg 28min N, 15deg 24min E

Here is a link with more info>

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=18793

Happy Hunting!

JDK · **Posted:** Sat Oct 08, 2011 11:49 pm

Thanks! That accident's well known, and always quoted in any useful history on the type.

trojandl wrote:

The chances are, surely, that the aircraft remains are still in situ.

What makes you think that? On the contrary, I'd be very surprised if there's anything other than a few scraps of metal left. There was a world war since and if nothing else, the Germans were very good at collecting and reusing aircraft grade aluminium - and particularly early in the war, recovering and burying their dead. The chances, I'd suggest, of anything usable remaining are negligible.

Certainly there's a better chance of other wrecks being found further East, but it's pot luck. Stuka parts have come out of Eastern Europe, but not so far something that's looked likely for restoration to fly like the Fw 190 of Paul Allen. (Although I now recall a Jim Pierce promoted wreck a few years back.) Of course a Fw 190 is a lot 'sexier' for restoration than a Ju 87.

Regards,

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:00 am

FOLLOWUP - Having now read the link properly :oops:

I can see where you're coming from on the crash site, and it's a fair point. However there's a catch 22 here. Anything rebuildable now would've been recovered then; anything findable now will be 'self-buried' and wrecked beyond anything but wreck/scrap display. Interesting nonetheless, thanks!

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:11 am

Quote:

I'm not worried about an "Emeny at the Gates" as if they're that lisdexic they probably can't get in... Cheap jokes aside, thanks for the ref to the film, but it sounds pretty iffy - did you see it Steve?

Sorry..I meant "Anemone At The Gates," the direct-to-video sequal to "Finding Nemo." :lol:

I have "Enemy At The Gates" on DVD. As I mentioned in the "rate this movie" thread, I enjoyed it, but I understand it takes considerable liberties with historical facts (I don't know much about the Battle of Stalingrad, which probably worked to my advantage.)

The Stukas are shown bombing the boats attempting to bring Red Army reinforcements across the river into Stalingrad. The CGI isn't bad, but the aircraft are shown in fairly quick shots, with no extended closeups, so the scenes look pretty good. The Ju-88s are shown later in the film flying over in formation bombing the city. Again, seen in fairly long shots so you can't really make out any detail. The only thing that bugged me was something I've noticed in both miniature and CGI aircraft scenes for years: a complete lack of wing dihedral. The "flat" wings completely wrecked the illusion for me (but like most of us here, I'm entirely too nit-picky when it comes to aviation flicks.)

Here's the river crossing scene..the Stukas show up at about the 3:00 mark. WARNING: This clip contains extreme, graphic violence and bloodshed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AidvXzNKC4

SN

Warbird Information Exchange

Stukas Anyone?

Who is online