Any HE-111's Gonna Fly?

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:16 pm

Hi Wix brain-trust,

I was curious to know if there are any He-111's flying in the world (which I'm pretty sure there aren't), and as a follow up I'd like to know why? There seems to be such a race to get anything any anything, especially the more obscure warbirds flying, but where is the effort for the He-111's?

During the filming of the Battle of Britain film, there were quite a few, in service with the Spanish Air Force, but after they were retired, did they all go to museums never to be flown again? Was the CAF example the only one that kept flying?

Are there any He-111 airframes that are on their way to airworthy status, or any with the potential?

Peace,

David M

tulsaboy · **Posted:** Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:44 pm

daveymac,

IIRC, the one at Cavenaugh (I think) is capable of flight, but the decision has been made not to fly it due to its rarity. That being said, I'm sure that there's no reason it couldn't.

kevin

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3329

Paul Allen has one. I believe it is slated to fly sometime around 2097.

DoraNineFan · **Joined:** Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:37 pm **Posts:** 671

daveymac82c wrote:

Hi Wix brain-trust,

I was curious to know if there are any He-111's flying in the world (which I'm pretty sure there aren't), and as a follow up I'd like to know why? There seems to be such a race to get anything any anything, especially the more obscure warbirds flying, but where is the effort for the He-111's?

During the filming of the Battle of Britain film, there were quite a few, in service with the Spanish Air Force, but after they were retired, did they all go to museums never to be flown again? Was the CAF example the only one that kept flying?

Are there any He-111 airframes that are on their way to airworthy status, or any with the potential?

Peace,

David M

After BoB filming the Spanish retired the CASA airframes and most were scrapped, with only a few of the He-111s finding buyers.

Paul Allen does have an He-111 in storage, and there might be another airworthy restoration in Europe but very off the radar with current info.

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:04 am

It's a shame really. The He-111 was such an important part of the Nazi war effort and it's a shame there aren't that many around. I find it strange that not more He-111's were saved after the Spanish retired them. I can only imagine that there were enough people that could forsee the importance of saving more examples of the type.

If luck is on my side I may still be alive when Paul Allen gets his airborne, if Mike's calculations are correct. I should be a hundred something years old, but by then technology could allow us to live into our hundreds and hundreds.

Is there any likelihood that there could still be some He-111's still to be found underwater or in the woods?

Peace,

David M

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3329

There have been a couple of underwater recoveries from Norway David. Mikael Olrog's excellent site lists all the known survivors. http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/

John Dupre · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:49 am

I remember reading on of Neil Williams books in which he described ferrying one of the CASAs from Spain to Britain. He was told by the Spanish Air Force officers he met that the CASA 2111 was considered a particularly difficult aircraft to fly. He found that was not at all true. But I wonder if the local legend affected the Spanish decision to scrap most of them.

L2Driver · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:51 am

This will sound like splitting hairs but considering the $$ involved to restore these aircraft we're not talking about an HE-111 but rather a CASA 2.111. Probably in the same realm as the decision to restore a Bf-109 vs a Buchon. Is it worth the investment of $$?

Enemy Ace · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:11 am

I'm sure the one at Duxford will fly again.... someday.

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:12 am

I would sure like to see the CASA example at the NMUSAF go on display there or be sent off to another museum for display?

Mark Sampson · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:02 pm **Posts:** 300

There was at least one flying in the USA- I saw it at Geneseo in about 1999. A while back I looked it up on Warbird Alley and found that it has crashed since then, sadly killing all aboard.

maxum96 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:43 am

Mark Sampson wrote:

There was at least one flying in the USA- I saw it at Geneseo in about 1999. A while back I looked it up on Warbird Alley and found that it has crashed since then, sadly killing all aboard.

That was the CAF 111 that crashed in Cheyenne Wyoming back in 2003.

bomberflight · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:08 am

John Dupre wrote ......

Quote:

I remember reading on of Neil Williams books in which he described ferrying one of the CASAs from Spain to Britain. He was told by the Spanish Air Force officers he met that the CASA 2111 was considered a particularly difficult aircraft to fly. He found that was not at all true.

John ~ that's chapter 20 ~ "Nach England Gehen" in a book called Airborne by Niel Williams ~ published in 1977.

In my copy I still have his obituary from Aircraft Illustrated ~ dated Feb 1978. He was ferrying another Casa 2111 from Spain to the UK when it hit a mountain north of Madrid in Dec 1977. The crash claimed his life, along with that of his wife and two engineers.

Let's fast forward to 2011 ......

My understanding ( and I'm no expert ) is there is a serious challenge with the wing main spar ~ in the Casa anyway.

It has a steel core encased in an aluminum box ~ which causes galvanic corrosion over time.

In the example I've been shown the corrosion extends into the spar attachment webs and the skins.

So any conservation may require replacing a considerable amount of the original structure and a restoration to fly is
going to warrant substituting the material building up the new main spar if you want to fly the thing for some years.
Trying to get approval to fly with such a modification should provide hours of extra fun.

Given it's an expensive rebuild for anyone to undertake ~ a Casa with Merlins painted in a Battle of Britain scheme is really
a replica rather than a genuine example. If you wanted to reverse engineer with Jumo engines ~ I suspect you could spend all
the winnings from your good fortune on the lottery. I can't think how else such a project would get the massive amount of funding.

And yes ~ I would love to see one fly !

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:11 pm

bomberflight wrote:

A Casa with Merlins painted in a Battle of Britain scheme is really
a replica rather than a genuine example.

Not to split hairs but I see it as more of an aircraft representing another aircraft. And if not for nothing it would be flying in an authentic 1969 scheme that it wore during filming. :wink:

To me replica is an aircraft thats not really close to the original (i.e. T-6 converted to resemble a A6M2 Zero). Heres a question: Aside from the Merlin Engines, are there anything else thats different between the original German made version and the CASA example?

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3329

Enemy Ace wrote:

I'm sure the one at Duxford will fly again.... someday.

It's now owned by the IWM, so it is very unlikely that it will fly again.

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Any HE-111's Gonna Fly?

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