Brewster Buffalos in USA lakes, and others...

[bdk]

Any crash reports on these?

I've heard of #s 1, 5, 7 & 14 at least.

http://www.oshkosh365.org/ok365_DiscussionBoardTopic.aspx?id=1235&boardid=147&forumid=179&topicid=3409

This message came in to our museum's inbox last night - passing it along by request:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the list of old planes I have. I would like to find someone with deep pockets and who loves old planes who will help fund both the recoveries and restoration. Please spread the word.

1. 2 WW2 Corsairs off San Diego in the ocean. Shallow
2. Brewster Buffalo in a certain lake in USA
3. Amphibious British WW2 plane in a certain English lake. A Sunderland. Kermit Weeks has one at his air museum in Fl.
4. PBY in Lake Mead
5. P-38 off San Diego in 130 ft. of water
6. 5 SBD's in South Pacific in brachish water. Eye witness told me about them going down.
7. Japanese Zero in Solomons on land and in Indonesia in jungle
8. 2 P-38's in indonesia near shore and can be seen from air.
9. P-66 in San Francisco Bay
10. F5 in a Montana lake
11. F5 on my island of Navassa west indies.
12. A Beaver in a certain British Colombia, Canada lake
13. Possible Brewster Buffalo in a California lake
14. B-29 bomber in Lake Mead I found years ago with side scan sonar. (problems with Nat. Park Svc)
15. "Black Sheep Squadron" pilot from WW2 recently gave me locations of SBD's, Corsairs and Zeros.
16. WW1 British Sopwith Struders in a river in Scotland sitting on the worlds first aircraft carrier which launched planes at sea.

I am told that the SD aero space museum bought a P-39 or 40 from a fisherman out of san diego. It was in 1000 ft. of water. Now, it is totally restored. I write books about this kind of stuff but I have never recovered an airplane. It has always been ancient shipwrecks and their possible treasures.

I am negotiating with several TV production companies who produce for The History Channel and Discovery
Channel networks about creating a series about me and my team searching for and recovering old aircraft. I will host the show.

My phone is 760 468 1240

Thanks,
Bill Warren
San Diego, California USA

[JDK]

3. Amphibious British WW2 plane in a certain English lake. A Sunderland. Kermit Weeks has one at his air museum in Fl.

This was a hoax. Sunderlands - which are certainly NOT amphibious but are pure flying boats - were built on Windermere, and there have been rumours of one 'scuttled' in the lake. Someone came up with a hoax using a model and made a 'side-scan' picture of it and took in The Times newspaper.

Allan King, author of Wings on Windermere, which we published, has tracked the stories to dead ends.

http://mmpbooks.biz/mmp/books.php?book_id=37

12. A Beaver in a certain British Colombia, Canada lake

Well, that narrows it down. It's like saying there'll be a Cessna on a US airfield! Quite possible, unlike...

13. Possible Brewster Buffalo in a California lake

How would a Buffalo get into a Canadian lake? Well, if it was the animal, easy. If it was the Brewster beastie, then it'd be VERY lost. Not a RCAF type, nor one that ever passed through Canada, as far as I've ever heard.

16. WW1 British Sopwith Struders in a river in Scotland sitting on the worlds first aircraft carrier which launched planes at sea.

I love it! Presumably referring to the rotary engined wood and fabric Sopwith 1&1/2 Strutter type, rather unlikely to be in any meaningful remains 90 years on. Scottish rivers are great for salmon, but not carrier compatible.

Most of them aren't navigable above dinghy size. And that's what's between the big water - the Lochs (like Loch Ness) and the sea in most cases.

Sounds like a (very) garbled version of the German fleet that was sunk at the end of W.W.I in the RN Navy base of Scapa Flow, in the Orkneys in Scotland. No carriers, German or British, and, AFAIK, no aircraft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling_ ... Scapa_Flow

[Mike]

13. Possible Brewster Buffalo in a California lake

How would a Buffalo get into a Canadian lake? Well, if it was the animal, easy. If it was the Brewster beastie, then it'd be VERY lost. Not a RCAF type, nor one that ever passed through Canada, as far as I've ever heard.

Bugger, have they moved California to Canuckland now? I wish they'd told me, I'd have packed my coat, hat, scarf and goves!

[JDK]

Uh - Oops!

YMMV!

[Mike]

I am told that the SD aero space museum bought a P-39 or 40 from a fisherman out of san diego. It was in 1000 ft. of water. Now, it is totally restored. I write books about this kind of stuff but I have never recovered an airplane. It has always been ancient shipwrecks and their possible treasures.

Wasn't it a Hellcat?

Sounds like a VERY poorly researched list to me.

[Jerry O'Neill]

I think there is one location missed in this discussion.
I know where there are several hundred Japanese aircraft (Vals, Kates and Zeroes) AND 4 Japanese Carriers at the bottom of a certain ocean.
Jerry

[gregv]

I think there is one location missed in this discussion.
I know where there are several hundred Japanese aircraft (Vals, Kates and Zeroes) AND 4 Japanese Carriers at the bottom of a certain ocean.
Jerry

Every time I see a documentary on Midway that show Zeros etc. ditching after their carriers were sunk I almost salivate...you know they are still down there. Now all you have to do is find one and bring it up, in one piece.....too bad they're 3 or 4 miles down.

greg v.

[tom d. friedman]

it's funny....... for such an overall bashed, mashed, fat assed, failure in ww 2 fighter aircraft history the old sad sack buffalo sure generates alot of interest!! i'm guilty as charged too!! no comments from finland please.... you overcame the hairy beast's quirks.

[lmritger]

I think there is one location missed in this discussion.
I know where there are several hundred Japanese aircraft (Vals, Kates and Zeroes) AND 4 Japanese Carriers at the bottom of a certain ocean.
Jerry

Every time I see a documentary on Midway that show Zeros etc. ditching after their carriers were sunk I almost salivate...you know they are still down there. Now all you have to do is find one and bring it up, in one piece.....too bad they're 3 or 4 miles down.

greg v.

Not to mention all 10 F4F-4s from VF-8 (two with remains, I believe), a few VF-3 birds, all of VT-8 and most of VT-3 and VT-6, most of VMF-221, Max Leslie's VB-3 Dauntless, a couple early short-wing B-26s, and so on and so forth. As we saw with the Yorktown, the condition of any aircraft that far down must surely be quite decent, with paintwork almost fully intact. Many of the Japanese aircraft were also veterans of Pearl Harbor, the Darwin raid, Java, and Coral Sea, so their historic value is beyond compare- and as I've been learning over the past few days, an amazing number of the Japanese pilots actually survived the loss of their carriers. I was shocked at how few IJNAF pilots and crew were actually lost at Midway. So Paul Allen, if you're checking in here, this might be right down your alley...

Speaking of Yorktown, have any of the other photos shot during Ballard's expedition ever been published or put on line? The only thing I ever see are the pics shown in "Return To Midway".

[Garth]

Every time I see a documentary on Midway that show Zeros etc. ditching after their carriers were sunk I almost salivate...you know they are still down there. Now all you have to do is find one and bring it up, in one piece.....too bad they're 3 or 4 miles down.

greg v.

Well, the Glomar Explorer still exists.

[Mudge]

I certainly wish Mr. Warren well in his attempts to get the either the History channel or the Discovery channel interested in pouring money into his endeavor. They seem to be preoccupied with "Ice Road Truckers", "Pawn Stars", "Axmen", "Dirty Jobs" and a myriad of other "non-historical"/"non-discoverical(?)" programs. Haven't even seen "Gunny Ermey" in quite some time.

Mudge the doubtful

[Obergrafeter]

"And the Glomar Explorer still exists", not only that the owner of it lives right down the road. Has a pretty neat aiport in his backyard too.

[Jesse C.]

I know where there is a certain B-32 on a Moon somewhere!

[Obergrafeter]

The B-32 wouldn't be much fun, everbody knows about it. Wonder why Tighar hasn't raised money for it allready. Maybe Tighar can get some money from Tiger. If they get it perhaps some South Texas collector can buy it to add to his collection.

[RMAllnutt]

I remember having a chat with this chap about ten or twelve years ago... you should ask the story about the guano island of Navassa, which he tried to claim under the Guano act of 18 something or other.... it stated that any unoccupied guano island anywhere in the world could be seized by US persons. It dated back to when the concentrated nitrates from guano were crucial in the manufacture of gunpowder. He tried to sieze the island of Navassa for himself when the US Coast guard station closed down. Needless to say, it didn't quite work out the way he hoped. He took the legal battle all the way up to the supreme court, which I believe declined to review the case... it made for a good read. I got talking with him... I think through Barnstormers... because there was the same list of aircraft he was looking for. I have no idea what his qualifications are, or whether he has actually recovered any aircraft.... perhaps he has, but I am unaware of it. I would love for it to be true of course.

Cheers,
Richard

PS. Still can't get on to WIX from home... is anyone else experiencing this?