Warbird Information Exchange

I know I am supposed to post these in the video section but it is too cool for us turret and armament nerds to miss.

This is the CAF B-25 Miss Mitchell's upper Bendix turret in full operation. How cool is that! I think Miss Mitchell is one of the more authentic flying B-25's around.Well done guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7pqqHFPLV8&feature=email

Dude! Be smooth and gentle on the controls in that turret. Make her last. No abrupt control movements please.

I can think of several other operational Bendix turrets flying or flyable in B-25's:

How Boot That
Apache Princess
Heavenly Body?
Betty's dream
Soon to be Tondelayo
Barbie III?

What am I missing?

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Awesome, now it just needs a couple real .50's.

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Roger Cain
www.sfahistory.org
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Stearman/


We must limit politicians to two terms:
one in office and one in jail.

I believe:

44-29939 "Briefing Time" Does
44-30748 "Heavenly Body" has a Martin 250 and is only upper half

That's a good idea Roger. Maybe we should try that some time.

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Oh, I hate to see betty's Dream get changed. I love that paint job. So now there are going to be 2 Tondelayo's? The CF B-25 ex-Hoosier Honey is painted that way too.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

wow!! that gives real perspective as to the operating of the weapon station. i was in the air classics pacific princess b-25 at mt comfort in 03 for an air to air photo shoot w/ jim read in his corsair. i was in the dorsal turret with an el cheapo disposable fuji camera. no guts to her with the turret shell, but suposedly it could manuever. i was told to touch nothing of course!! i stood on a couch pad, just enough to get my 5ft 9 inch frame into the plexi bubble. the ride of my life, other than a few chicks in college!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

MD, I think you read that wrong. Betty's Dream has a working turret.

Tondelayo's is soon to be working.

Did I get that right Taigh ?

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"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass..."
Admiral Isoruku Yamamoto

Oh, OK. That is cool. I like both paint jobs. The CF B-25 is special to me as I had a bunch of time with it and in it. I learned a ton about b-25's with Randy W. and his crew.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

Tom,

You are right about 43-28204 "Pacific Princess." Unfortunately, similar to most B-25s these days that have turrets, it has a Martin 250 turret and only the top half. It does have the hand crank to manuver the turret. Besides the rarity of the Bendix turrets, the Bendix turret hampers the TB-25 configuration of having 2 comfortable seats behind the pilots which is why most opt to have a Martin turret with the lower half missing. All in all though I rather ever see the Martin turret in place rather than no turret at all as they look a little naked with no turret.

Ryan

Ryan

I'll let our team know that you guys appreciate the work on this!

Thanks,
Jim

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Keep 'Em Flying

Oops, double post

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Keep 'Em Flying

Sorry for the confusion. The Collings Foundation's B-25 Tondelayo is going to have an operational Bendix turret installed, hopefully sometime soon. This is one of the great things about Rob Collings; he wants to install original and operational equipment in the aircraft to make them more complete and authentic. A great example is taking the student seat out of the B-25 and installing the operational Bendix turret. The same goes with the B-17, B-24 and all of the other aircraft.

I love the idea of more things to bang your head on while crawling through the bombers. This is what it was like for the aircrew back in the day and I think it is how it should be today. Having a full turret or radio room is a tribute to the guys who flew in these positions. These guys were the unsung heroes who rarely got the glory that the pilots did. To me they are just as important and I would like to see all of their equipment back in place.

I agree with you Ryan, as usual, that a Martin turret installed in a B-25 is better than no turret at all. Having a full Martin turret installed in a B-25 is a safety issue to me though. A stripped turret is a lot lighter than a full turret. The Bendix turret originally in the B-25 was a pedestal type of turret that mounted to a box structure on the floor. All of the turrets weight was supported on the floor unlike the Martin 250. The Martin was completely supported at the ring gear so the full weight of the turret was held up by the aircraft skin, bulkheads stringers etc. In the B-25 the only support provided by the upper ring structure was for lateral loads and to hold the ring bearing surface. The B-25 fuselage was not designed to hold up the full weight of a turret that probably weighs close to 1500 pounds. The B-25 Dream Lover (now Old Glory) ran out of gas back in the 1980’s while heading to reno she had to put down in the desert. She busted the nose gear and smashed up the nose in the crash. Ricketts had a full weight Martin 250 installed complete with all of the Armor plate. The turret moved pretty good in the crash and tweaked the fuselage skins all around it. It reminds me of the photos of the B-24’s that have belly landed and the Martin turret smashed down between the pilots trapping them. That is a lot of weight which wants to keep moving during heavy deceleration.

The Bendix turret is a rare beast especially when compared to the Martin. I think that the Martin has survived in greater numbers simply because it was produced in greater numbers. The Martin 250 and its variations were used in the following:

Martin B-26
A-30/Baltimore
A-20 Havoc
B-24
PB4Y-1
PB4Y-2 (two of them)
PV-1
PV-2
P4M
P2V
Late Lancaster

What else am I forgetting?

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'

Very impressive work!

Are there flying Bendix upper turrets with the armor plate still installed behind the gunner's head?

Mike

Taigh,
Once again, thanks for providing yet another educational opportunity for us Warbird nuts by sharing your knowledge and a video.
I sincerely appreciate learning more information about "the nuts & bolts", in this case turrets, of these great a/c.
I too don't mind "banging my head" when touring an authentically restored warbird. Still want to get special invitations to visit a tail gun position in a B17 and a late-model B24 & PB4Y2 (I did get to the tail gun position in "Gary's B24" and enjoyed that a LOT).
Have not been inside a Bendix turret...yet...someday...
John

I could be wrong but I think that most of the Bendix domes that are flying on B-25's today are likely reproductions and may not have the original armor plate installed. I think Riley made a bunch of reproduction domes and Aerotrader might have as well.

For our Collings Bomber camp coming up the first week of June, 2010 we hope to have the B-17 set up with the working ball turret and should have the tail turret accessible in flight (Mac permitting). If we have enough people sign up then I am hoping to have the B-17 and the B-24 up at the same time. We will see.

The plan is to have the ME-262 doing fighter attack runs while the gunners shoot back with 50 cal blanks. Someone also gets to fly along and try and chase the 262 from the back seat of the data plate P-51C Mustang. This ought to be interesting to see these two duke it out around the B-17!

Personally I can't fit into the Bendix upper turret simply because my shoulders are too wide to fit through the main casting...

I still fit in the ball turret though

I shot this video from the Collings ball turret a few years ago flying from Comcord, CA to Oregon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvuChgh4fGg

_________________
To donate to the PV-2D project via PayPal click here http://www.twinbeech.com/84062restoration.htm

We brought her from: to this in 3 months: Help us get her all the way back

All donations are tax deductible as the Stockton Field Aviation Museum is a 501c3 nonprofit organization. Tell a friend as the Harpoon needs all the help she can get.

Thank you!

Taigh Ramey
Vintage Aircraft, Stockton, California
http://www.twinbeech.com
'KEEP ‘EM FLYING…FOR HISTORY!'