sad day for aerovintage forum
Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:00 pm
go and check out the anti- obama rants on the aero vintage website if you dare. i thought that we were all way past this crap but i guess i was wrong. just for the record, i'n not a liberal and i do think that a black president is a little wierd, but one particular posting and the response of the moderator really says it all.
Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:15 pm
I had to read the post from Sunday the 9th a couple of times before I could really believe what I just read.
Very very sad indeed.
Wow.
Very very sad indeed.
Wow.
Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:30 pm
I can't seem to figure out what thread you're talking about, so maybe either of you could PM me. I'm curious.
-David
-David
Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:39 pm
Very disturbing. 
Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:13 am
Oh, I was lucky enough to find it before the "big deal" post was deleted.
Wow.... craziness.
I suppose being Canadian I have slightly different beliefs and understandings which made that post blow me away.
It astonishes me that in arguably the world's most progressive country, there can still be such brutal hatred and racism towards others based simply on the colo(u)r of their skin.
I was utterly shocked by what the individual said. And when I consider the fact that there is probably a small contingent in this world that agrees with him, it scared me more.
I wish for the safety of the new president-elect.
-David
Wow.... craziness.
I suppose being Canadian I have slightly different beliefs and understandings which made that post blow me away.
It astonishes me that in arguably the world's most progressive country, there can still be such brutal hatred and racism towards others based simply on the colo(u)r of their skin.
I was utterly shocked by what the individual said. And when I consider the fact that there is probably a small contingent in this world that agrees with him, it scared me more.
I wish for the safety of the new president-elect.
-David
Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:42 am
Geez I can take a good guess on who posted it....the guy is losing it.
Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:52 am
.
I have used the aero vintage site quite a lot as a reference site for B-25's and B-17's but hadnt realised it had a forum, and took the opportunity to have a look around while looking for the offending post that launched this thread.
I was rather surprised to read of a repeating theme of "WIX bashing" against the WIX site generally, and "un-named" WIX forumites so all of us by inference?, certainly not away to win friends and influence people?
If somone doesnt enjoy a forum, or individual posters, why not simply cease visiting, rather than bash away at them from another forum, while the complaints might well have been justified originally, the ongoing WIX bashing, when read out of whatever context created the bad blood, simply leaves the reader with a poor opinion of the basher or author himself.
I assume from the comments above it was same author who produced the now removed & apparantly offensive "big deal" thread?, I obviously have not read that post, and therefore cannot comment on its specific contents.
It is dis-appointing for me to have my introduction to a new warbirds forum by way of this supposed racial commentry & exposure to the anti WIX attitudes, as otherwise it seems an interesting and constructive forum.
But I would not intend to read, contribute or participate at a forum that permitted apparently racist threads to be posted, or condoned through retention, I guess the redeeming situation is that the post has been removed, however I note the anti WIX posts remain?
The rights of Freedom of speech, strongly esposed by some on that site, should be tempered with the old axiom "that its better to keep your mouth shut and let others think you are an idiot, than to open your mouth and prove it to them"
A bit like daveymac I sometimes cringe at the apparant persisting attitude by some against people simply based on their race or skin colour. That situation is particularly surprising to see still existing from some elements within a nation that is so well educated, and so christian in its beliefs? and has openly championed and fought for the freedoms of all people for so long?
In Australia we have had, and continue to have reconciliation and equity issues in the way indigenous Australians are treated, but there are very few with a hatred against an entire race?, and such attitudes are not tolerated by the wider community when esposed. Australia has come along way from its own "white Australia" policys of the 1950's, and perhaps immigration and multiculturalism have helped our attitudes to become more tolerant of differences, while understanding the ability of anyone to be a positive and successful citizen of our communities?
Lack of education, discrimination, poor socio-economic situations can trap people, and particularly minorities, into an underclass, that then is used to re-inforce stereo-types and racial slurs, therefore continuing the discrimination, even to the point that hope within the minorities can be extinguished, leading to crime and lawlessness, not as a proof of a trait of nature or race, but simply evidence of a shared and common lack of opportunity, nurture and fairness.
I personally feel the President-Elect creates a fantastic opportunity for the US to show it has moved beyond that intolerance, wont condone it, and demonstrate that the american dream really is available to anyone, regardless of race or colour of skin?
I hope my comments above are not seen to be political, I am not wishing to buy into the partisian or policy aspects of the recent election, or generate a debate on such.
But basic human rights and decency need to be defended, and offensive attitudes and comment need to be confronted head on, otherwise we might be thought to condone them by our own silence.
regards
Mark Pilkington
I have used the aero vintage site quite a lot as a reference site for B-25's and B-17's but hadnt realised it had a forum, and took the opportunity to have a look around while looking for the offending post that launched this thread.
I was rather surprised to read of a repeating theme of "WIX bashing" against the WIX site generally, and "un-named" WIX forumites so all of us by inference?, certainly not away to win friends and influence people?
If somone doesnt enjoy a forum, or individual posters, why not simply cease visiting, rather than bash away at them from another forum, while the complaints might well have been justified originally, the ongoing WIX bashing, when read out of whatever context created the bad blood, simply leaves the reader with a poor opinion of the basher or author himself.
I assume from the comments above it was same author who produced the now removed & apparantly offensive "big deal" thread?, I obviously have not read that post, and therefore cannot comment on its specific contents.
It is dis-appointing for me to have my introduction to a new warbirds forum by way of this supposed racial commentry & exposure to the anti WIX attitudes, as otherwise it seems an interesting and constructive forum.
But I would not intend to read, contribute or participate at a forum that permitted apparently racist threads to be posted, or condoned through retention, I guess the redeeming situation is that the post has been removed, however I note the anti WIX posts remain?
The rights of Freedom of speech, strongly esposed by some on that site, should be tempered with the old axiom "that its better to keep your mouth shut and let others think you are an idiot, than to open your mouth and prove it to them"
A bit like daveymac I sometimes cringe at the apparant persisting attitude by some against people simply based on their race or skin colour. That situation is particularly surprising to see still existing from some elements within a nation that is so well educated, and so christian in its beliefs? and has openly championed and fought for the freedoms of all people for so long?
In Australia we have had, and continue to have reconciliation and equity issues in the way indigenous Australians are treated, but there are very few with a hatred against an entire race?, and such attitudes are not tolerated by the wider community when esposed. Australia has come along way from its own "white Australia" policys of the 1950's, and perhaps immigration and multiculturalism have helped our attitudes to become more tolerant of differences, while understanding the ability of anyone to be a positive and successful citizen of our communities?
Lack of education, discrimination, poor socio-economic situations can trap people, and particularly minorities, into an underclass, that then is used to re-inforce stereo-types and racial slurs, therefore continuing the discrimination, even to the point that hope within the minorities can be extinguished, leading to crime and lawlessness, not as a proof of a trait of nature or race, but simply evidence of a shared and common lack of opportunity, nurture and fairness.
I personally feel the President-Elect creates a fantastic opportunity for the US to show it has moved beyond that intolerance, wont condone it, and demonstrate that the american dream really is available to anyone, regardless of race or colour of skin?
I hope my comments above are not seen to be political, I am not wishing to buy into the partisian or policy aspects of the recent election, or generate a debate on such.
But basic human rights and decency need to be defended, and offensive attitudes and comment need to be confronted head on, otherwise we might be thought to condone them by our own silence.
regards
Mark Pilkington
Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:17 am
Sadly, the election seems to have brought some people's latent racism to the surface. I've heard some comments by friends that appalled me..they're framed as "just a joke," but still disturbing.
As for the internet, a small model building forum that used to be fairly busy self-destructed earlier this year due to the election. The conversation between American conservatives and European liberals was often "spirited," but all the Euros bailed after an American made some blatantly racist comments about Obama (throwing the "n-word" around several times.) One of the Euros started a new forum, which is now busier than the original.
I suppose some good could come out of this situation. There's still a lot of racism out there, but many people have supressed or refused to acknowledge it. Hopefully, bringing it out into the light may help people confront eliminate some of their prejudices.
SN
As for the internet, a small model building forum that used to be fairly busy self-destructed earlier this year due to the election. The conversation between American conservatives and European liberals was often "spirited," but all the Euros bailed after an American made some blatantly racist comments about Obama (throwing the "n-word" around several times.) One of the Euros started a new forum, which is now busier than the original.
I suppose some good could come out of this situation. There's still a lot of racism out there, but many people have supressed or refused to acknowledge it. Hopefully, bringing it out into the light may help people confront eliminate some of their prejudices.
SN
Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:21 am
I stopped visiting the Aero Vintage message board a year or two ago after they allowed another poster (Dik Shepard) to continually make disparaging remarks to other posters if he disagreed with their point of view. I posted a message that if that was the way they were going to allow that message board to be run, I was going to leave and not come back. And I haven't.
It's really a shame. I used to go to Aero Vintage board and I come to the WIX board because I love to learn more about warbirds. I love to share info with other warbird enthusiast. And I've learned a lot from here, and the Aero Vintage board.
Dik Shepard is extremely knowledgeable about warbirds. But his arrogant attitude has run me and other people off. That's too bad. I'm sure there is a lot I could learn from him. Hopefully that kind of situation will not come to pass here.
So far I've really enjoyed being on WIX and learning from everyone on here. Just because we might not see eye to eye on things doesn't mean we can't all share our enthusiasm for warbirds.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
It's really a shame. I used to go to Aero Vintage board and I come to the WIX board because I love to learn more about warbirds. I love to share info with other warbird enthusiast. And I've learned a lot from here, and the Aero Vintage board.
Dik Shepard is extremely knowledgeable about warbirds. But his arrogant attitude has run me and other people off. That's too bad. I'm sure there is a lot I could learn from him. Hopefully that kind of situation will not come to pass here.
So far I've really enjoyed being on WIX and learning from everyone on here. Just because we might not see eye to eye on things doesn't mean we can't all share our enthusiasm for warbirds.
I'll get off my soapbox now.
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:00 am
JohnH wrote:Geez I can take a good guess on who posted it....the guy is losing it.
How can you lose, what you never had in the first place? : )
That guy has been, is, and sadly will always be a jerk.
Saludos,
Tulio
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:30 am
what did i miss?? if the errant post was deleted??
Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:32 am
after receiving a rather questionable reply to my post above, but thankfully via email, by someone who didnt leave his name on the bottom so that I could identify him, I went off to aero vintage forum to see if I could line up the email address, to put a nick/name to the attitude?
I was pleased to see the moderator there does remove offensive comments and has resorted to banning offenders, and perhaps I will change my outlook on the forum and simply recognise that a moderator cant halt what others stupidly post, they can only act after the event, unless they require posts to be submitted and moderated before publishing them, and that would make the moderator's job impossible to do. So hats off to aerovin2 for acting!
In regards to my anonomous correspondant, I will leave the details of that offline, however if you are reading this I would probably prefer not to know your name or Wix nick in anycase, I hope you read my reply and contemplate what you have said, and what it apparantly reveals about you.
regards
Mark Pilkington
I was pleased to see the moderator there does remove offensive comments and has resorted to banning offenders, and perhaps I will change my outlook on the forum and simply recognise that a moderator cant halt what others stupidly post, they can only act after the event, unless they require posts to be submitted and moderated before publishing them, and that would make the moderator's job impossible to do. So hats off to aerovin2 for acting!
In regards to my anonomous correspondant, I will leave the details of that offline, however if you are reading this I would probably prefer not to know your name or Wix nick in anycase, I hope you read my reply and contemplate what you have said, and what it apparantly reveals about you.
regards
Mark Pilkington
aerovin2
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 218
Location: Lincoln, California
Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject:
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And, unfortunately, after another offensive message, I have taken the action to ban a user. First time that's had to be done. That user has had some good information to share about B-17s over the years but I don't welcome his other comments here.
Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:15 am
And some wonder why WIX doesn't want politics mingled in with the aeroplanes...
Sad deal indeed
Sad deal indeed
Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:26 am
Ztex wrote:And some wonder why WIX doesn't want politics mingled in with the aeroplanes...
Sad deal indeed
And yet, those people continue with their political stuff .... WIX is definitely not what it used to be.
If this trend continues, we will lose even more valuable participants.
Tulio
Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:26 am
A few folks have asked me what I think about boards and do I have any ideas on how to run one, I point them in the direction of the WIX and the H.A.M.B. as two boards that get it done.
I have lurked on other boards and by far this is one of the best.
Thanks, Scott and Crew!
I have lurked on other boards and by far this is one of the best.
Thanks, Scott and Crew!