Ban the CAF flying displays with Zeros and Kate i say

Why is it that in Germany and Europe and even USA if i right, that German warbirds can not wear the Nazi "Z" symbol on their tail but the normal luftwaffe marking are ok?

Isnt this ban for the PC mob for the fear of offending with the "Z"
just as lame as having Japanese warbird with the big red meatball showing?

I find japense planes offensive to me but if it didnt have meatball i wouldnt know who owned it. .so a hard call...

Japanese people and planes put fear into everyone in asia in ww2. That had a much larger population base than europe ever did in ww2. So fear is not as easily forgotten in asia and pacific.

So i now wonder if the german markings can be banned, why not ban the Japanese meatball to...

The problem is people havent forgotten what has happened since ww2 ended. The ww2 generation is nearly dead and the modern generation doesnt care or wish to understand about the extent of the horror that happened in ww2 in europe and in asia.

I know 21yr kids nowdays when asked about ww2 just laugh and say who cares dude it doesnt affect me or cause me any problems. Their attitude makes me wana punch them in head hard but i resist.

So attitude like that show ww2 is long gone to most i fear. The old people over 70yrs age are the ones who know what war is like and war is hell.

[blurrkup]

If you are talking about the Swastika symbol it is only Germany that they don't allow it to be displayed on aircraft. Many German WWII aircraft in the UK fly with it on.

[gary1954]

In Germany, at least when I was there 77-82, the Swastika symbol was banned from not only aircraft, but anything. I believe the only exception is the Aviation museum in Munich (I believe that is where it is) that has some german aircraft on display. Banned last I heard.

[Jiggersfromsphilly]

Basically the difference is that the Swastika (Hakenkreuz) is the symbol of the National Socialist Party.

The Luftwaffe still uses the WW1 cross on their craft. The Hinomaru is still used on the Japanese Self Defence Aircraft.

The Swastika and The National Socialist Party are both outlawed.

[skymstr02]

I say ban wxlova from any CAF or CAF aircraft participant airshow!

We sure don't want him to get any sand in his whowho.

[sagebrush]

Darn it skystr02, I just smacked the computer screen with my cap to kill that bug and it turned the monitor which in turn hit my glass of water which dumped it's content on the table which ran onto my latest Warbirds magazine. Now it's all wet and the bug's still there!
You got me good.

[famvburg]

Unless some other countries have changed, there were several others that banned the swastika. Until the early '90s, I had a penpal in Czechoslovakia, later Czech Republic, & the swastika was banned there also. ISTR the USSR, when it existed, banned it as well. IIRC, the exception was if it was seen in a historic photo.

If you are talking about the Swastika symbol it is only Germany that they don't allow it to be displayed on aircraft. Many German WWII aircraft in the UK fly with it on.

[AviaS199]

IIRC, the Fascist symbol is still banned in Italy, as well.

[TonyM]

CAF Great Lakes Wing Junkers JU-52 airplane and Swastika markings.

We had the CAF Junkers JU-52 based at Gary, Indiana, for years and we caught a little flak for that swastika on the tail so we had to cover the thing up when the airplane was parked outside and visible from the road. We had a few clips installed in the tail that held a thin aluminum foil type cover that went over it and hid the swastika from view. For several years the airplane appeared at the EAA pancake breakfast/Model A show at the Historic Ford Motor Co Hangar at Lansing Municipal Airport (IGQ), Illinois. Never a problem--and we received favorable press coverage. People swarmed the airplane and wanted to know all about it and wanted to fly in it. Great for us and our wing. Then when it became known to the general public that we were going to move our airplane to Lansing, IL, some anonymous person/persons mounted a smear campaign against our airplane, calling it a "Nazi Tribute Plane". The anti JU-52 person/persons wrote anonymous letters to elected officials and the FBO guy, slamming us and our plane. We responded in the press in a measured and intelligent way, comparing our flying museum to the famous U-505 display at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. No success--the damage was done. We had to postpone the move of our base of operations from Gary into Lansing (IGQ) because of it. We never did find out who exactly was behind the smear campaign against our JU-52.

TonyM.

Last edited by TonyM on Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

[gary1954]

Yes, when I was in Germany (west) back in 77-82, the Luftwaffe had the Iron Cross on their aircraft, I am opposed to "Banning" the swasticka from any warbird that represents Germany during WWII, as it is historical, and causes young ones to question the symbol, which gives us, the ones that understand what was behind the symbol, the opportunity to "Educate", and this is something that is at the grass roots of the CAF and other organizations that operate warbirds...so it is my opinion, that they stay. Hitler and his machine is dead, we are not keeping him alive, but we are keeping alive the ugliness of war, and keeping that picture alive, perhaps we can minimize its global repeat. Just my opinion.

Last edited by gary1954 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Cubs]

I am opposed to "Banning" the swasticka from any warbird that represents Germany during WWII, as it is historical, and causes young ones to question the symbol, which gives us, the ones that understand what was behind the symbol, the opportunity to "Educate", ...
Hitler and his machine is dead, we are not keeping him alive, but we are keeping alive the ugliness of war, and keeping that picture alive, pergaps we can minimize its global repeat. Just my opinion.

Gary,
I agree with you. Someone is quoted as saying when we forget the past; we are doomed to repeat it. Back when the Enola Gay B-29 was on display, reportedly some woman was throwing rocks or blood at the aircraft, yelling someting like: "murderers"!. I wasn't there. But, I wanted so bad to say to that woman and any others, "If that airplane reminds you of the horrors of war, then it has partly done it's job. That's why it's here.!!
(And to honor the men and women (WASPS, WAAFS, Rosie,) etc. who served and sacrificed during that war).

Paul

[Mark_Pilkington]

.
I think certain objects (such as Enola Gay) or symbols (such as Swastika) need to be measured in the "eye of the beholder" and their context.

In Germany the swastika is banned to avoid it being used by neo-nazi's who may use it to rally around, and worship the Nazi heritage.

In Germany and Europe there are still survivors of the holocaust who suffered unspeakable treatment under that same symbol.

I personally dont have a problem if those countries deciding to ban that symbol, it doesnt particularly destroy the ability to restore and display a german WW2 aircraft, or to tell the truth about history to modern generations.

In Japan, and in particular Hiroshima and Nagasaki I am sure there are survivors and victim's families who have no interest in preserving Enola Gay, and would probably happily pay for its scrapping, there is a similar attitude to Bomber Command in Germany and the BBMF flying Lancaster in Europe because of that.

Over time as direct participants in these events pass, the raw nerve, suffering and contraversy of display the Swatstika, and these aircraft will dissapate.

In the mean time those of us not "walking in their shoes" should try to have some empathy and consideration for their strong feelings over these matters, without neccessarily relinquishing to their positions or views.

Those people have a personal justification to be offended or emotionally upset by display of such objects, which will reduce as generations pass.

Ongoing there will always be a fringe of neo -nazi's hovering around displayed swastika's and Nazi memorabilia, and anti war and anti nuclear protesters objecting to Enola Gay, and there is really no need for history to be hijacked or hidden because of those minorities.

regards

Mark Pilkington

[Jerry O'Neill]

Wxlova;

I think you have way too much time on your hands.
Jerry

[vg-photo]

Having an aircraft fly with a meatball or a swastika is only for historical accuracy. The airplane itself is a neutral object, and merely a tool for whatever power is in position to use it. If the airplane didn't have a meatball on it, as you say, you wouldn't know, therefore wouldn't care? I guess ignorance is bliss then, eh?

I can guarantee you anyone who ever faced off against a Zero would recognize it instantly, regardless of markings.

I come from a group of people that were under the boot of those wearing swastikas. There are branches of my wife's family that disappeared forever under the third reich. Yet, there I was, two nights ago, flying next to an aircraft with German markings, including the swastika.

What these airplanes are doing is representing a period of history, not glorifying evil. They are not showing support for nor are they condoning these regimes.

[tom d. friedman]

since ww 2 the swastika has gravitated down to a symbol of hate. it, i believe, was originally an indian symbol of luck or something. as a jewish man, re: the holocaust, i'm not at all offended by it on aircraft, it's accurate history plain & simple. the german government's perpective to ban it right down to dust collecting model decals is a feel good denial of history. the japanese hinomaru or rising sun has always been a national insignia & should be judged as such.