[PICS] Keesler Field etc., 1947, part 1 of 6
Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:47 pm
PART 1 OF 6
Recently some additional negatives were located from the photo collection of Richard Kamm, whose pictures I have posted in the past on this forum. I thought they were exciting and so have decided to post a selection of them for you. I have 76 pics to post. I'm not crazy about the recent trend of having a separate thread for each photo, but 76 is too many for one thread, so I'm breaking them down into posts of about 10-12 pics each, ending where there is a natural break.
It will help to know a little about Dick to understand the slides.
Dick joined the USAAF in 1947 and served as an aircraft mechanic. He did his basic training at Lackland, then went to mechanic school at Keesler Field in Biloxi, Miss. (then the AF's largest mechanic training base), then took one of the first jet engine courses at Chanute in Illinois. By the end of 1947 he was maintaining RP-80s in the Panama Canal Zone, and went on to serve as crew chief on F-80s and F-84s in Europe, then flight engineer on B-29s, B-36s, and B-47s back in the States. After leaving the service in 1962 he continued to work in aviation, ultimately teaching aircraft maintenance at Parks College and being active in the antique, homebuilt, and aviation history communities. He was awarded the FAA's Charles Taylor "Master Mechanic" certificate, which is pretty much the FAA's Hall of Fame for civilian mechanics.
These 127-format negatives came to me with no information, but it's clear that they date from Dick's training days in 1947, mostly at Keesler Field. There are also pictures from local civil airports, probably around New Orleans.
Many of these old negs are not in the best shape. Some were mis-focused, incorrectly exposed, or improperly developed to begin with, and they've collected quite a few scratches and a crinkle or two in the past 60 years. I have cleaned them up only a little. Still, I think you'll like them. They contain a mixture of civil and military types, a photographic journal of what was flying around the Biloxi/New Orleans area 60 years ago this year. Probably nobody has looked at most of these pictures in more than 50 years. I hope you enjoy them.
There being no obvious order of the pics, I am presenting the pics in alphabetical order by manufacturer. All of the information below is my own research and conjecture, and I would love to tap the expertise out there by having you all chime in about the pics. So, on to the first manufacturer:
AERONCA
A proud owner next to his Aeronca K or KC.
Handsome Aeronca Chief NC85890. Evidently parked at the Aeronca dealer with another new Chief right behind it. The sign on the hangar invites you to FLY! an Aeronca with a price of $10, but it isn't legible whether that is per hour, per ride, or what. Whatever it is, I'll take it.
BEECH
In a field of surplus BT-13s, Beech Staggerwing NC4512N, an aircraft that has survived as a restored classic now registered to an owner in Delaware, see:
http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=N4512N&u=reg
Interesting Beech SNB marked "XT-241". Does any of you Navy tailcode experts know what "XT" stands for? It has the bomber-trainer nose and what looks like a fairing for an upper turret.
Another interesting twin Beech, this time a civil one NC75642, with what appears to be a faired- or painted-over bomber-trainer nose.
Nice clean C-45, 44-67262. Note curtains in cabin windows.
BOEING
"Starduster" was a veteran B-17G 44-6393 converted to VIP transport configuration in the immediate postwar years. Subsequently it was sold to Bolivia and after some years as a military and civil transport there it was reacquired by the USAF for museum display. You can see it today at the March Field Museum, Riverside, CA. It looks pretty good now, but not as good as it did in 1947. See:
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b17regis ... 46393.html
More prosaic B-17G 44-8095, apparently in use as an instructional airframe.
B-17G 42-102737, whose fate is listed on Baugher's page as "reclamation/scrap at Keesler Field, TN Oct 13, 1950."
An unidentified lifeboat-equipped SB-17G, no doubt maintained at Keesler for rescue duties in the nearby Gulf.
We'll return to the Sikorsky later, for of present interest is that the background of this picture shows the war-weary B-29s lined up at Keesler for use as instructional airframes. They still bear their wartime bomb group tail markings. Let's take a closer look, shall we?
B-29 42-24732, "Hore-Zontal Dream," claimed five trips over the Hump, three Japanese ships, two fighters, and 28 bombing missions while with the 678th BS, 444 BG. You can find wartime shots of it at these two sites, sporting fewer mission symbols:
http://news.webshots.com/photo/26173948 ... 3163wnZEWz
http://www.444thbg.org/678thbombsq.htm
It's a pity this one, or at least its nose section, wasn't preserved.
The same could be said for 42-24590 "Celestial Princess". See wartime shot from Tinian here:
http://www.mrprophead.com/b29nose.htm
And see color profile here (third thumbnail from bottom):
https://www.aviationillustration.com/sh ... 9afe7f115e
The other side of one of the B-29 noses shows the 462nd BG's distinctive insignia.
Not a B-29. Not a B-50, either. 42-93845 was the one and only XB-44, Boeing's first trial lash-up of R-4360 engines on a B-29 airframe to prove the concept to itself and the Air Force. Other than the nacelles it is a stock B-29, distinguisable from a B-50 by the original shorter vertical tail. By 1947 this aircraft would have served its purpose (the first true B-50 flew that year) and apparently was retired to Keesler as an instructional airframe, perhaps for trainees who would later service the B-50.
Recently some additional negatives were located from the photo collection of Richard Kamm, whose pictures I have posted in the past on this forum. I thought they were exciting and so have decided to post a selection of them for you. I have 76 pics to post. I'm not crazy about the recent trend of having a separate thread for each photo, but 76 is too many for one thread, so I'm breaking them down into posts of about 10-12 pics each, ending where there is a natural break.
It will help to know a little about Dick to understand the slides.
Dick joined the USAAF in 1947 and served as an aircraft mechanic. He did his basic training at Lackland, then went to mechanic school at Keesler Field in Biloxi, Miss. (then the AF's largest mechanic training base), then took one of the first jet engine courses at Chanute in Illinois. By the end of 1947 he was maintaining RP-80s in the Panama Canal Zone, and went on to serve as crew chief on F-80s and F-84s in Europe, then flight engineer on B-29s, B-36s, and B-47s back in the States. After leaving the service in 1962 he continued to work in aviation, ultimately teaching aircraft maintenance at Parks College and being active in the antique, homebuilt, and aviation history communities. He was awarded the FAA's Charles Taylor "Master Mechanic" certificate, which is pretty much the FAA's Hall of Fame for civilian mechanics.
These 127-format negatives came to me with no information, but it's clear that they date from Dick's training days in 1947, mostly at Keesler Field. There are also pictures from local civil airports, probably around New Orleans.
Many of these old negs are not in the best shape. Some were mis-focused, incorrectly exposed, or improperly developed to begin with, and they've collected quite a few scratches and a crinkle or two in the past 60 years. I have cleaned them up only a little. Still, I think you'll like them. They contain a mixture of civil and military types, a photographic journal of what was flying around the Biloxi/New Orleans area 60 years ago this year. Probably nobody has looked at most of these pictures in more than 50 years. I hope you enjoy them.
There being no obvious order of the pics, I am presenting the pics in alphabetical order by manufacturer. All of the information below is my own research and conjecture, and I would love to tap the expertise out there by having you all chime in about the pics. So, on to the first manufacturer:
AERONCA
A proud owner next to his Aeronca K or KC.
Handsome Aeronca Chief NC85890. Evidently parked at the Aeronca dealer with another new Chief right behind it. The sign on the hangar invites you to FLY! an Aeronca with a price of $10, but it isn't legible whether that is per hour, per ride, or what. Whatever it is, I'll take it.
BEECH
In a field of surplus BT-13s, Beech Staggerwing NC4512N, an aircraft that has survived as a restored classic now registered to an owner in Delaware, see:
http://www.abpic.co.uk/search.php?q=N4512N&u=reg
Interesting Beech SNB marked "XT-241". Does any of you Navy tailcode experts know what "XT" stands for? It has the bomber-trainer nose and what looks like a fairing for an upper turret.
Another interesting twin Beech, this time a civil one NC75642, with what appears to be a faired- or painted-over bomber-trainer nose.
Nice clean C-45, 44-67262. Note curtains in cabin windows.
BOEING
"Starduster" was a veteran B-17G 44-6393 converted to VIP transport configuration in the immediate postwar years. Subsequently it was sold to Bolivia and after some years as a military and civil transport there it was reacquired by the USAF for museum display. You can see it today at the March Field Museum, Riverside, CA. It looks pretty good now, but not as good as it did in 1947. See:
http://www.warbirdregistry.org/b17regis ... 46393.html
More prosaic B-17G 44-8095, apparently in use as an instructional airframe.
B-17G 42-102737, whose fate is listed on Baugher's page as "reclamation/scrap at Keesler Field, TN Oct 13, 1950."
An unidentified lifeboat-equipped SB-17G, no doubt maintained at Keesler for rescue duties in the nearby Gulf.
We'll return to the Sikorsky later, for of present interest is that the background of this picture shows the war-weary B-29s lined up at Keesler for use as instructional airframes. They still bear their wartime bomb group tail markings. Let's take a closer look, shall we?
B-29 42-24732, "Hore-Zontal Dream," claimed five trips over the Hump, three Japanese ships, two fighters, and 28 bombing missions while with the 678th BS, 444 BG. You can find wartime shots of it at these two sites, sporting fewer mission symbols:
http://news.webshots.com/photo/26173948 ... 3163wnZEWz
http://www.444thbg.org/678thbombsq.htm
It's a pity this one, or at least its nose section, wasn't preserved.
The same could be said for 42-24590 "Celestial Princess". See wartime shot from Tinian here:
http://www.mrprophead.com/b29nose.htm
And see color profile here (third thumbnail from bottom):
https://www.aviationillustration.com/sh ... 9afe7f115e
The other side of one of the B-29 noses shows the 462nd BG's distinctive insignia.
Not a B-29. Not a B-50, either. 42-93845 was the one and only XB-44, Boeing's first trial lash-up of R-4360 engines on a B-29 airframe to prove the concept to itself and the Air Force. Other than the nacelles it is a stock B-29, distinguisable from a B-50 by the original shorter vertical tail. By 1947 this aircraft would have served its purpose (the first true B-50 flew that year) and apparently was retired to Keesler as an instructional airframe, perhaps for trainees who would later service the B-50.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:10 pm
Excellent series of posts. Thanks a bunch for posting them.
Keesler P-26?
Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:42 pm
Wonderful Wonderful photos. I was just born way too late.
There's an old story about a base hack Boeing P-26 at Keesler Field sometimes flown by a commander there AFTER the war. When I saw your postings I was hoping just one photo would maybe prove its existence, but I don't see any Peashooters even in the shadowy backgrounds anywhere.
An old friend, Don Long, of Boise, Idaho (lived on Gage off of Orchard Ave.) and his brother found a civil P-26 on a farm in Iowa or Illinois after the war, bought it and flew it a bunch. Don's brother barely put it down safely on a small grass strip and scared himself silly. They put it up for sale, Don used to tell me, with the conditions that the buyer never try to fly it out. A buyer came along and so agreed but then tried a takeoff shortly after anyway and plowed into a creek embankment at the end of the runway. Don told me that he and his brother ran down and peeled the guys face off the instrument panel but he lived. The plane was destroyed by immediate postwar standards. I wish I knew the location. Don had no photos. He could tell some good ones (about rebuilding an old Skylark biplane as teenagers and later owning and flying some surplus Timm N2T-1s) but he swore up and down the stories about the P-26 were absolutely true. I have often wondered if this somehow was the ex-Keesler bird since civil P-26s (outside of Maloney's) are not really a known documented item.
There's an old story about a base hack Boeing P-26 at Keesler Field sometimes flown by a commander there AFTER the war. When I saw your postings I was hoping just one photo would maybe prove its existence, but I don't see any Peashooters even in the shadowy backgrounds anywhere.
An old friend, Don Long, of Boise, Idaho (lived on Gage off of Orchard Ave.) and his brother found a civil P-26 on a farm in Iowa or Illinois after the war, bought it and flew it a bunch. Don's brother barely put it down safely on a small grass strip and scared himself silly. They put it up for sale, Don used to tell me, with the conditions that the buyer never try to fly it out. A buyer came along and so agreed but then tried a takeoff shortly after anyway and plowed into a creek embankment at the end of the runway. Don told me that he and his brother ran down and peeled the guys face off the instrument panel but he lived. The plane was destroyed by immediate postwar standards. I wish I knew the location. Don had no photos. He could tell some good ones (about rebuilding an old Skylark biplane as teenagers and later owning and flying some surplus Timm N2T-1s) but he swore up and down the stories about the P-26 were absolutely true. I have often wondered if this somehow was the ex-Keesler bird since civil P-26s (outside of Maloney's) are not really a known documented item.
Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:38 pm
Excellent posting man, these photos are terrific *High Fives*
Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:25 pm
Richard Kamm was a member of the Aircraft engine Historical Society. His obituray along with an an article that he authoered about his early days being a jet engine mechanic is on their web site. WWW.enginehistory.org It is found in the section titled stories and essays. Regards Carl
Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:44 pm
thundergull pilot wrote:Richard Kamm was a member of the Aircraft engine Historical Society. His obituray along with an an article that he authoered about his early days being a jet engine mechanic is on their web site. WWW.enginehistory.org It is found in the section titled stories and essays. Regards Carl
That is correct Carl. Did you know Dick? He was a friend of mine for 26 years.
August
Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:49 pm
Thank God for the internet, or a lot of these photos would never be seen/ preserved. Thanks a lot for posting them!
B
B
Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:19 pm
I didn't realize that B-47's had flight engineers. Didn't they only have a crew of three?
Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:50 pm
As usual, terrific pics Jack.
Ah yes...Keesler Field. Lovely Biloxi, MS.
But it was Keesler AFB when I was an A/3c there in 1956. Went through ??? weeks of radar (AC&W) school. Got sent to ABQ where I never saw another radar set. Ain't that just typical?
Mudge the geezer
Ah yes...Keesler Field. Lovely Biloxi, MS.
But it was Keesler AFB when I was an A/3c there in 1956. Went through ??? weeks of radar (AC&W) school. Got sent to ABQ where I never saw another radar set. Ain't that just typical?
Mudge the geezer
Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:03 am
I'll take it as a compliment to be mistaken for Jack ... 
August
August
Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:20 am
The SNB-1 in the the picture was from NAS New Orleans.
The "XT" code broke down as "X" = NAS New Orleans and the "T" = training aircraft.
The old NAS N.O. was where I first saw the Blue Angels when I was about 4 or 5 (1952-53) right after they returned from Korea.
The old base was closed after the NEW NAS N.O. opened near Belle Chasse, LA in 1957.
The old NAS is now the campus of the University of New Orleans and there's no sign of the old base anymore except the smoke stack and one building from the old power station (although into the 1970s outlines of the a portion of the runways could still be seen from the air).
The "XT" code broke down as "X" = NAS New Orleans and the "T" = training aircraft.
The old NAS N.O. was where I first saw the Blue Angels when I was about 4 or 5 (1952-53) right after they returned from Korea.
The old base was closed after the NEW NAS N.O. opened near Belle Chasse, LA in 1957.
The old NAS is now the campus of the University of New Orleans and there's no sign of the old base anymore except the smoke stack and one building from the old power station (although into the 1970s outlines of the a portion of the runways could still be seen from the air).
Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:27 am
August, I only knew your friend in name only through The Aircraft Engine Historical Society. Thanks for a very informative set of posts. Regards Carl
Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:11 am
thundergull pilot wrote:August, I only knew your friend in name only through The Aircraft Engine Historical Society. Thanks for a very informative set of posts. Regards Carl
Carl, since you joined the forum relatively recently you (and others) might be interested in previous WIX posts that I have made of pics from Dick's collection:
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... highlight=
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... highlight=
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... highlight=
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... highlight=
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... =&p=107459
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... ff0c6b0520
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... php?t=8886
http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... d310586639
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... highlight=
August
Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:31 am
August,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for preserving these images and sharing them with all of us. There is no telling how many photos have gone straight to File 13 without being saved.
To everyone else on the forum, if you are fortunate enough to have access to stuff like this, make copies of some kind and store them separately, share them with us (if possible) and commit them to some museum when the time comes.
Great stuff!
Scott
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for preserving these images and sharing them with all of us. There is no telling how many photos have gone straight to File 13 without being saved.
To everyone else on the forum, if you are fortunate enough to have access to stuff like this, make copies of some kind and store them separately, share them with us (if possible) and commit them to some museum when the time comes.
Great stuff!
Scott
Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:33 am
Second Air Force wrote:August,
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for preserving these images and sharing them with all of us. There is no telling how many photos have gone straight to File 13 without being saved.
To everyone else on the forum, if you are fortunate enough to have access to stuff like this, make copies of some kind and store them separately, share them with us (if possible) and commit them to some museum when the time comes.
Great stuff!
Scott
You're more than welcome Scott. I get much pleasure out of it. Obviously I need to start a web site, since forum threads have a way of disappearing into the past.
I wholeheartedly concur with your appeal to all to preserve these old photos. But, I must offer a caveat to one aspect of it. A museum is not always the best place for these old photos. Air museums, large and small, often have scant resources to take care of large photo collections -- and I'm talking about just protecting them from deterioration, let alone scanning and sharing them. Before consigning a valuable photo collection to a museum, you should investigate what they have done with other collections they have received and whether they can credibly commit to doing the right things with yours. Invariably they will accept the collection with all good intentions, but if they are just going to get stuck in a musty closet and forgotten, or put out on a library shelf where the best pictures will grow legs and walk out the door, that is hardly better than the sad fate of having them sold piecemeal on ebay.
The best thing for most of these collections is to find someone, preferably with quite a few years left, who will take the collection in and promise as a labor of love to preserve, digitize and share it. Sadly, many aging vets and airplane buffs do not know such a person. This forum might be a way to bring some of them together, but many older fellows are not online.
Those of you who have always wanted to help out an aviation museum but don't live near one and/or can't be trusted with a wrench, but are good with computers and scanners and love airplane photos, might consider this as a way to volunteer your services. Many air museums have received photo collections from local vets and enthusiasts and now have them in storage gathering dust, or worse. Contact one and inquire whether you can help. You won't get to keep the original photos of course, but you can help preserve, organize, and share them, and you'll get to work with pictures that nobody has looked at in a long time and that, if not for you, might never have got looked at again.
And you museum folks out there -- sound off if you need this kind of help. My plate is a bit full with the Kamm collection for a while, but I'll help if I can, and I'm sure others on the forum would also.
By the way, for a further small portfolio of Dick's pictures:
http://photo.net/shared/community-membe ... id=2235861
August