Warbird Information Exchange

Tried 5 crosswind landings today. They SUCKED.
A wimpy 7k R to L crosswind and you'd think it was a freakin' hurricane. I haven't done that poorly since about my 5th or 6th landings 3 months ago. For some unknown reason, I simply COULD NOT get the right aileron, left rudder combination to work worth a cr-p. Then, to top that, I'd lose focus on the runway and level off and flair too high and go merrily cruising down the runway at about 15'. GRACEFUL AS A HOG ON ICE.

I did have one exciting moment. Met a plane coming head on at my altitude.
Dumb sh-t was on final for runway 32 while I was taking off on 14. We were both at about 1400'. He'd been told, no less than three times, that the active was 14. I was just about to turn crosswind for 14 anyway so I went ahead with my pattern while keeping an eye on him. I'm sure he didn't see it but I flipped him off. (I know...I know...but it did me some good.) Had 2 instructors in the plane with me and they both agreed he was in the wrong.

I don't get discouraged, I get FRUSTRATED 'cause I know I can do better.

Oh well...I'll have another go on Monday.

Mudge the REALLY frustrated

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Land of the free because of the brave

I well remember a day back in 1977 or so when I was taking flying lessons as a teenager. We had parallel runways at Crystal Airport, and I was on final for 31R and someone else was on final for 31L. Problem was the guy had his left and right mixed up.

There I was, with very few solo hours under my belt and this guy was coming down on top of me. The lady in the tower was getting more and more concerned as you could tell as her voice got higher and higher as she was telling this other guy that he was coming in on the wrong runway.

He was completly oblivious. At that point I was counting the rivits on the bottom of this guy's plane. The tower operater finally hollers "Triple three-two Quebec" go around!

That was me, and I pulled to the right and away as this guy settled in for his landing on the wrong runway.

Funny to think about now, but was very scary for a 17 year old newbie pilot at the time.

I know I am not a fixed wing pilot, my wings go spinning....but been there when you have a bad day training and you end up getting mad or kicking yourself or just plain walking away from the bird wondering will I ever get it! I actually blew a checkride fligh once upon a time. I had to land the helicopter in an opening that was 30 x 60 surrounded by trees, which was a piece of cake. The examiner then said okay get out of hear but only use 24 inches of manifold pressure (temp made the real limit 26). Everything was going great til the last moment, and to avoid putting the helicopter into the trees I went to 25. Instant fail! Man I didn't know what to do...my CFI pulled me through though and helped out alot. Hats off to you Lynn Nowotny best rotor wing CFI out there! (Yeah I checked he is actually related to Walter Nowotny and he didn't even know it!!!!)

Oh, sorry Mudge. That was me in the other plane. Joking of course. I flew today as well.

-Nate

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Shop the Airplane Bunker At
www.warbirdbunker.com

Hi Mudge!

I did the same thing. I think everyone reaches that point during training. I did the same kinda thing, and guess what, my instructor told me that.

I guess the point is, to blow past that stuff and concentrate on flying. You don't have a choice, you gotta land, go around and do it again.

Ask me some time about landing a 172 at 75 knots...heheheeeeee, I tried it twice,,,,not smart enough to get the big flick the first time, had to do it again........

Thats my mid training story........

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DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

Mudge, if you did all the flying and the CFI didn't touch the controls, the landings may not have been all that bad. If it makes you feel better, after doing two excellent landings in Breckenridge, I made one of the worst ones I ever have at the Lubbock airport. Just don't be satisfied with one that can be improved on a lot.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Use your rotors and do some hedge trimming? Seen it

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Many years ago I had the same cross wind trouble. What helped me a lot was going out on a very windy day (with an instructor of course).
The lesson was to try and line up with the runway while on final. The real point was to see the limits of the airplane, when I was out of rudder and I could not line up with the runway it all really came together for me. We landed on the other runway.

Maybe down the road if you get ahold of a taildragger another good practice is to land on one wheel and try to hold it down the runway. This is excellent practice for crosswinds. Light taildraggers can also takeoff angled across the runway and alleviate the crosswind alltogether.

Don't take these crosswinds lightly this is a very common cause of dings dents and prop strikes.

Oh and by the way as you move up the ladder every aircraft that is faster and weighs more gets easier in the wind.

Good Luck

Hey Mudge you could get your lessons in a sea plane,we usually get to takeoff and land into the wind
Hey if it was easly girls would do it oh wait my last instructor was a woman but she couldn't fly worth a sh--

Keep your head up! And why 2 instructors?

Phil

Hi Mudge,

Sorry I missed you at Chino.

I used to instruct... In a galaxy far, far away... Anyway, I understand you're frustration at not "getting it" during your crosswind landings. Usually, if you're repeating a maneuver, you can see some progress as you learn from one repeat to the next.

This seems like it did not happen. The reasons could be many. (Looking in the right place to see crab angle, putting the upwind wing down versus a crab, etc.)

My point, though, is this. You just had a great learning experience. It's when you're performing poorly that you're learning the most.

We call this a learning plateau. You've leveled off and you don't see any progress in your learning curve. You've stopped. This is normal and it will pass. You will have thousands of these in your dance with aviation.

Next time, try and evaluate what needs to change in your performance (for lack of a better word). Then institute that change the next time around. That didn't work? Do something different for a little while, then take a fresh whack at it.

We can mimic our instructors very well. It's when we're left to our own devices that we get to display our training + skill + perception = experience.

Cheers to a better 'next time.' I'm sure you'll have one!

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Scotty G
www.LightAndLift.com
www.WarbirdAeroPress.com

that's actually a very good description of ALL of our learning processes. It stands from learning your ABC's to learning how to pick up women in bars to shooting down Migs at 20K i'd guess

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Mudge,
Your frustration with your landings is a very common occurence. Everyone reaches a point in their training where they think they're going backwards in skill level. It's very normal so don't get too concerned about it. It happens to everyone and there is no rhyme or reason as to what aspect of training it will involve.

An example I've seen: student at 15 hours suddenly forgets to steer with his feet and starts trying to drive the plane around the airport like a car using the yoke. Not for a few seconds but for about 5-6 minutes. The person literally forgot how to taxi and I had to taxi the plane back in. No reason for it and the student was fine the very next day. It just happens.

You'll very likely have a struggle for a flight or two and then things suddenly become very clear and you'll be left wondering what all the fuss was about. Normal. Normal Normal. I'm sure you'll do fine.

Phil...Another one of the instructors (who just got his CFI) just wanted to ride along. (I asked him how long he'd had his "death wish".)

My instructors (both my original and my new guy) tell me I'm doing great on my "upper air" maneuvers. The only thing I'm still having trouble with is landings. I do about 75% well but the other 25% are almost like I've never SEEN a runway before. And they're not consecutively good or bad. They're mixed. I'll do 2 really well and get cocky and immediately screw up the next 1 or 2. Then I'll do a couple more good ones.
Don't know whether I'm getting tired the longer I fly or what. It's REALLY hot in the plane and I'm soaking wet within about 15-20 minutes. That makes me uncomfortable and possibly (subconsciously) makes me want to get the lesson over with. I dunno, but I know the longer the lesson goes, the more I lose focus. I know...I know...A little cheese with that...

I guess it's also frustrating that I know I can do this and I'm taking longer than I thought I would to get it right.

Mudge the bulldog

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Land of the free because of the brave

Mudge, a few questions;

1) are you doing anything between lessons to sharpen and refine your eye- hand coordination and depth perception? Basketball, tennis, golf, table tennis? Oh wait your English, okay cricket, squash, darts or croquette?
You will be amazed at the difference if you will spend 30 minutes a day this will make towrd imkproving your landings.
2) Do you have everything in the cockpit and pre-landing checklist memorized? This helps too.
3) As far as scary, too close for comfort, merging flight encounters, this too is a part of flying and there will be more. Take comfort in knowing the
other guy probably isn't happy seeing you that close either!
4) Mgeorge51 idea about practicing in a very windy day on the not preferred runway, practicing low approaches only is a great idea. That is what my instructor did with me and he was a great one.
Best of Luck!

Mudge you could try flying in the morning when its cooler and less windy.

Good luck,Phil