What WarBird should be Reproduce next ? 2018....

[Triplane102]

What about the Westland Lysander ? BUT, MAYBE,.. with an American engine & prop ??
& Thanks everyone ! for your input !!

[JohnB]

Okay, be that we've listed the impossible (B-36), and the foreign minor types/oddities that no one...even in their home countries...wants to spend (waste..since unlike a Spitfire or Mustang they'd likely be a hard sell once the builder is done with it) their money to build, what's realistic?

So, more Mosquitos coming from NZ,
a real-metal Kingfisher, a shark fin B-17, and several pre-sold P-12s under construction (but many years late), what's in the pipeline?

-Anyone know if the tooling still exists for the H-1 replica?
-Some tooling (molds I understand) for a Lockheed Vega are out there...any work on that...which is a realistic project.

[JohnB]

What about the Westland Lysander ? BUT, MAYBE,.. with an American engine & prop ??

I hate to sound negative, but if anyone wanted one...or had a use for one... they wouldn't have been scrapped.

After the war there were many in Canada..you'd think with their large fuselage and low price, someone would have used them as bush planes if they were at all practical for civil use. After all, a few bush pilots got their start with surplus L-2,3,4s, so the bar was set fairly low in terms of space and payload.

[marine air]

The Lysander was a childhood favorite. However , most Brits and Europeans consider it a travesty to put an incorrect engine in a restoration. Confirmed this with a British auto enthusiast friend. This is a big reason why the Lysander disappeared quickly from the post war civil scene. (Bad engine)
There are really only a couple of Hi-61 Tony projects and they have been around for many decades. In Kermit’s engine video it sounds like there’s maybe one good engine core and a lot of bits and pieces retrieved from the Pacific decades after the war. So a restoration to airworthy will require a rebuilt DB601 with cowlings etc. plus a fortune reconstructing the airframes . Four to five million bucks?
I’ve always wondered if there’s a market for the wooden/ plywood/ Duramold/ etc . Rebuilds like the
Lockheed Vega, Timm N2T-1, Culver PQ-12 and PQ-14, Bucker Bu181 Bestmann and other. The market isn’t there yet but it’d be nice to see a shop build up a run of fully rebuilt to new standards, Navy N3Ns
If you get a chance to see the Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk, it would be a worthy aircraft to replicate. Small and built light, would be a superb aerobatic performer.

[Cvairwerks]

Marine: The Duramold stuff would be fun, but you would need to have enough hard commitments to be able to build a set of production tooling for the skins. Even doing a set of unheated concrete molds would set a shop back somewhere in the $250K+ range for the Vega, and it's a pretty simple shape. For proper bonding with a wet layup, the molds need to be able to sustain molding pressures in the 40-60 PSIG range, over the entire mold surface. The exception would be, if you could find the correct composition and manufacturing data for the RF cured sheet glue that was used during the war. With that, though, you would need to be able to afford to generate about 30-50kW of microwave energy in a controlled cavity to pass a wooden form set through.

Unfortunately, there are probably not enough of us that like the weird wood airplanes that would or could cough up the capital to do a production run of any of them.

[sandiego89]

What about the Westland Lysander ? BUT, MAYBE,.. with an American engine & prop ??

I hate to sound negative, but if anyone wanted one...or had a use for one... they wouldn't have been scrapped.

After the war there were many in Canada..you'd think with their large fuselage and low price, someone would have used them as bush planes if they were at all practical for civil use. After all, a few bush pilots got their start with surplus L-2,3,4s, so the bar was set fairly low in terms of space and payload.

Think that is missing the point about warbirds today. I think there would be a decent amount of interest is seeing a Lysander restoration or reproduction today. Just because they were not popular post war and put into wide spread civil use does not mean they would not be popular today. There were cheaper (to operate) and perhaps better bush planes that were put into service. We had all kinds of types that no body "wanted" post war, but would be highly sought after today. Heck mosquitos were literally put out to pasture in Canada, but I think you find the are quite popular now. No one wanted early B-17s, no one wanted Black Widows, no one wanted Shakletons, Stukas.....

I would love to see one- big and impressive, with cloak and dagger type insertions conducted by the type, what's not to like? Our UK friends would go wild over some flying examples. I'd much rather see a Lysander over a L type or another bush plane....

[wendovertom]

Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien Fighter - Keep hearing about a couple being done, but nothing yet.

Like the OS2U, one or two coming from NZ in time.

Current status:

Kingfisher project at Pioneer Aero by Errol Cavit, on Flickr

Is this progressing or sitting? The Beatles were wrong - all it takes is money!

Tom P.

[ErrolC]

Is this progressing or sitting? The Beatles were wrong - all it takes is money!

Tom P.

Kingfisher is currently sitting (upside-down). P-39Q is main focus, and preparation for Sea Hornet.

[JohnB]

Think that is missing the point about warbirds today. I think there would be a decent amount of interest is seeing a Lysander restoration or reproduction today. Just because they were not popular post war and put into wide spread civil use does not mean they would not be popular today. There were cheaper (to operate) and perhaps better bush planes that were put into service. We had all kinds of types that no body "wanted" post war, but would be highly sought after today. Heck mosquitos were literally put out to pasture in Canada, but I think you find the are quite popular today...

I understand what you're saying, it's frequently said on the Key Publishing forum. The fact remains, there is a lot of money in the UK warbird community. If there was a market for a Lysander, someone would restore or build one (and yes the basically unsupportable engine would be a problem).

Witness the lack of Mosquitos flying in the UK. You would think there would be more in the UK than US.
It looks to me like the UK warbird community has lots of money to spend on Spitfires/Hurricanes/Mustangs etc. but not a lot for weird stuff.
The flying rare items seems to owned by groups (Shuttleworth or the Blenheim groups name two).

I imagine the "rich guys" find it more rewarding to say at their private club "I have a Spitfire" than saying "I have a Lysander"...then having to spend the next 10 minutes saying what a Lysander is.

[seagull61785]

I totally agree John.

Barry

[quemerford]

I'd have to disagree on the argument: pilots love to yak on, so any excuse to 'explain' what a Lysander is would be seen as a bonus.

As the saying goes, "How do you know if there is a pilot in the room? - They'll tell you".

[Triplane102]

Thanks Again everyone ! ( I'm beginning to sound like Tiny Tim ) on the spirited insights of the Lysander etc.. I agree that a "Restored" Lysander would/should have the original type engine & prop, But I'm talking about a " Reproduction ", a Brand New 2018 ( or '19,'20,'21....) that would have NO pedigree what so ever than the shape. Then, I could see an American engine & prop, much like Most of the Flying Japanese fighters we have today. Still. I'm a HUGH Fan of the Centaurus engine on a Hawker Fury/Sea Fury, but I DO understand how operators of the type have installed 3350s & 2800s ( kinda sad to see The Fighter Collection do so, but they do seem VERY please with the 2800).. I'll just dream on about flying down in my all Black Lysander, dropping off Aliens onto U.S farm fields to create their circles !

[John Dupre]

I suppose the Allison V1710 is the best candidate but I wonder about length and weight. I have heard about some marine V-12s that supposedly mimic some of the aviation V-12s. Then you are looking at developing both an aircraft and an engine on the same project rarely a good idea.

[sandiego89]

I imagine the "rich guys" find it more rewarding to say at their private club "I have a Spitfire" than saying "I have a Lysander"...

Well you have the "rich guys" and the "really rich guys" ....and I do think there are certain bragging rights to having something no-one else has....

Perhaps like the car crowd, with hobbyists (in the US) first buying a Ford Mustang, GTO, Corvette, etc. Then you get to the next tier and they get Ferraris and Superbirds, THEN you get to the guys that want something no else has and you get the bragging rights of having something ultra rare and unique...

Most aviation collectors may start with the iconic Mustangs and Sptifires, heck even some well off dentists and doctors have had a Mustang, but we seem to only have a few (Paul Allen, Jerry Yagen, etc) that have the resources to fund wider collections and the really big bucks for those more obscure types... thank goodness for them!!! Bring on the Stuka's, KingFishers, Lysanders....!!!

[AFWhite]

TBD-1 Devastator



As a Warbird, probably one of the most historical in terms of contributing to the victory of a single battle.