Lake Michigan recoveries?

[StangStung]

Such a shame the remaining aircraft aren't opened up to the general public for salvage.

Pity the Navy is more interested in keeping the wrecks under its bureaucratic control instead of preserving history by letting approved groups recover and restore the aircraft.

This is exactly the opposite of how I read Alohadave's post above.

I think the Navy is interested in seeing these aircraft preserved. The best way to ensure that is the Navy says where they wind up. They're not going to let any yahoo with a John boat and a grappling hook go after these aircraft, which is as it should be.

[ALOHADAVE]

Yes The lists I posted are not up to date, but give a good idea of what was and is underwater.

Pity the Navy is more interested in keeping the wrecks under its bureaucratic control instead of preserving history by letting approved groups recover and restore the aircraft.

Approved groups are allowed to recover them. Many have already. It just costs big bucks to recover and restore them, few groups can do it.

I think the Navy is interested in seeing these aircraft preserved. The best way to ensure that is the Navy says where they wind up. They're not going to let any yahoo with a John boat and a grappling hook go after these aircraft, which is as it should be.

Thank you StangStung for your comments. The Navy wants the best possible home for the aircraft.

[Chris Brame]

FM2 Wildcat photos shortly after it arrived at Kalamazoo
This is an example of what you get after the plane has been underwater for more than 70 years.

And what you get when the carrier hits it after it ditches.

[bdk]

I think the Navy is interested in seeing these aircraft preserved. The best way to ensure that is the Navy says where they wind up. They're not going to let any yahoo with a John boat and a grappling hook go after these aircraft, which is as it should be.

So Doug Champlin was going to recover the TBD with a grappling hook? What about the P-47 "Dottie Mae"? Look at all the effort that went into the recovery of the "Swamp Ghost." All privately funded and ended up in a great museum.

In my opinion, private owners have a significant interest in maintaining the value of the huge investment required to recover and restore these aircraft. Many more aircraft would be recovered, restored and preserved if the USN kept out of it, if that was truly their goal.

After all, it wasn't even the USN that started looking for these lake aircraft and recovering them. The USN came along once they realized what they could control.

[StangStung]

I think the Navy is interested in seeing these aircraft preserved. The best way to ensure that is the Navy says where they wind up. They're not going to let any yahoo with a John boat and a grappling hook go after these aircraft, which is as it should be.

So Doug Champlin was going to recover the TBD with a grappling hook? What about the P-47 "Dottie Mae"? Look at all the effort that went into the recovery of the "Swamp Ghost." All privately funded and ended up in a great museum.

- I don't know how Doug Champlin was going to recover the TBD, and I didn't make any suggestions about him. So put that straw man away. Realistically, the bad press from the Champlin/TBD drama probably moved the USN toward being more open to recoveries. We all know the Navy has never relinquished their claims on these aircraft. That being the case, it is understandable they want to have some input that they are recovered and displayed in a responsible manner.

- P-47 and Swamp Ghost are irrelevant. They weren't Navy and the USAF didn't claim them. I'm pleased as punch that private entities have stepped in with the significant costs of recovery and effort to bring these two planes back.

In my opinion, private owners have a significant interest in maintaining the value of the huge investment required to recover and restore these aircraft. Many more aircraft would be recovered, restored and preserved if the USN kept out of it, if that was truly their goal.

After all, it wasn't even the USN that started looking for these lake aircraft and recovering them. The USN came along once they realized what they could control.

I agree, private owners who put up their own capitol and sweat equity have a significant interest in recovering and restoring aircraft. But then their interest isn't the only interest is it? If the USN was merely interested in exercising control, then they could've adhered to the old policy of "no recoveries no how." But that's not how it is now, is it? They have their interests and the private world has theirs, and together they've found a way to operate in a way that benefits everybody. Whether there would be more benefits if they kept out of it altogether, I suppose will have to remain a matter of conjecture.

[Warbirdnerd]

I thought an SBD veteran from the Torch landings was on the cards at some stage?

This was at the same time the FM-2 was recovered. It was a possible alternative.

regards,

Mark

Is there another Torch veteran SBD in the lake? The NMNA guidebook states that SBD's Bu06624 (on loan to Kalamazoo) and Bu06626 (stored at P-Cola) are both Lake Michigan recoveries and Torch veterans.

[CoastieJohn]

I suppose a crack sea lawyer or Congress critter could make an argument about the "greater good" of recovering LM aircraft. If the Navy still claims ownership, that means the taxpayers still own them under the management of the USN. The questions then become what is the best management and disposition of these taxpayer resources and where does the greater good lay? GAO auctions with long term restrictions to protect them for historical significance maybe? I suspect there are some logical means to do this.

[ZRX61]

FM2 Wildcat photos shortly after it arrived at Kalamazoo
This is an example of what you get after the plane has been underwater for more than 70 years.

They don't all look like that. I worked on one of the Wildcats & it still has the factory paint inside the fuselage.