Warbird Information Exchange

All these posts about the B17 and not one word about the fine food in the Bomber Restaurant. (I have had two terrific breakfasts there.)
What is this forum coming to???

ww2John,
Is the coffee any account?

Doug

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"I love the smell of 100LL in the morning."

Roger that!

Now THAT'S the point I can agree upon 100 percent. And therein, lies the "rub" if you will, for those of us who are all for preservation of vintage aircraft.

No matter where you live, real estate cost in today's market is downright obscene. At my area municipal airport, there's a 5 to 8 YEAR waiting list for covered hangar space, and outdoor storage is no longer offered by my municipality. Here's the irony - if someone was to GIVE me a B-17 (which to date no one has offered...) it's not an issue of whether or not I could keep it at the local airport. I couldn't because space for said - especially indoor storage space - is just not available.

And, if I had all kinds of income to make this happen, would the general public be more accepting of say, Mr. Lacey's B-17, or a Gulfstream corporate jet in that city hangar? My municipal watchdogs would certainly want the later.

I concur that it would be a wonderful blessing for this a/c to be indoors. I have my fingers crossed that some rich millionaire or benefactor will come to this mindset, too, and make an offer to the family. What a neat transition this would be for the next 60 years of this airplane's life - to be covered and housed and not subject to bird poop, rainstorms, corrosion and freak acts of weather (or vandals). And to be pampered over by a staff or volunteers who are passionate about this type of airframe? Man, that would be the best thing possible.

But unless someone ponies up to make this happen - either by coughing up the bucks or acting as a neutral party between owner and buyer, it'll continue to sit out of doors until it rots off the pylons.

And as the sun sets all across the globe right now, there's many rare and historic airplanes out there in the elements just corroding away. Sad, but true. I'm all for fibreglas replacements and the real examples in museums, yet I hear nothing from the museum side saying, "Heck yeah - we'll make it happen!" Have you?

Can't help but wonder about the condition of two neat "outdoor stored" warriors right this very moment - like the B-17 and B-24 in the Barksdale, AFB, LA collection? They are two "survivors" of the post WWII scrappings that have fared a little better with attention from staff and volunteers over the past decades... but it goes back to our initial bone of contention. They may be restored to static condition.. but where exactly are they sitting?

They're both outdoors right now getting hammered in WX brought on by a hurricane... just as you are reading this very post.

i hear what you are saying about municipal interference, but i was playing the devils advocate on that one. how easy is it to walk past that car or truck that has been sitting in your yard for years and thinking ï gotta get on that one day". every day you walk past it and it gets a little worse and a little worse,but because you walk past it every day, you dont even notice anymore how bad its getting. then one day you decide to wash it and take a look at it with some pals and a few beers,and you realize that what was once a matter of putting a new engine into it has turned into that and some new floor pans, and now the trunk is rusted out, the brakes need doing and everything electrical is toast. awww, hell you say. ï dont have time to get involved with that right now. but you still brag about the fact that you have a 55 chevy to anyone that will listen. see where i'm going with this?? if these folks want to see their airplane saved, they are going to have to face the fact that they need some outside assistance. people who run a coffee shop and a gas station cant afford to restore a B-17. no offence meant. the best thing that could happen is that they seek out a suitable partnership with someone that has the means to make this a reality. i'm sure that the folks that own this bomber love the plane and have all of the best intentions in the world, but the time has definately come to loosen the ties that bind a bit and accept or seek out some professional assistance in getting this aircraft at least protected. the days of a plane on a stick are over. its an eyesore now. sorry to be so blunt but thats how i see it. when the folks that are restoring the urbana b-17 are cobbling together 3 or more airframes to come up with a flyer, while there are numerous semi abandoned aircraft in the usa,(that ones gonna get me in trouble) just begging to be restored,youve gotta wonder where peoples heads are at that own these ignored treasures.

I see your point exactly, Groundpounder. Understood and well expressed.

It geography that keeps me out of Oregon and down here in the desert right now, or I am sure I'd figure some way to get involved on that project and try to see a little positive forward motion.

I think we're all on the same page - we do this stuff out of respect and commitment to the airframes.

and there lies the problem with the Milwaukee B-17. They're in it for the bottom line. The a/c is the draw for their business. This is why they were denied 501c3 status by the IRS and had to return all the donated $$ they collected expecting to have their non-profit status approved. If it was about the a/c it would have come down years ago!

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Don't touch my junk!!