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When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:47 pm 
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daveymac82c wrote:
Another question regarding the Lanc, and GregV I hope I don't get in the way of people answering your question....

But,

I've always noticed the big black bump on the bottom of the Lancaster's fuselage just aft the bombay, but never really understood what it housed. Can someone explain to me it's purpose? Electronics? Nav Aids?

And how come they chose to never put a belly turret in that position? Was it because night raids didn't require too much protection from underneath?

Cheers,

David McIntosh


Here is your answer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2S_radar


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:48 pm 
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David,

That bump is usually radar, typically teh H2S, apprently so named because when it first came on line it 'smelled'...apocraphyl perhaps but funny never the less.

Bomber command predomiantly relied on the cover of darkness for protection. There was some experiemtation with lower turrets but results were unsatisfactory and were quickly abandon infavour of the conventional designs. Experienced luftwaffe NF crews exploited this weakness with diving attacks that upswpet the fueslage and raked them from stem to stern with MG and cannon fire, later aircraft had the so called 'jazz music' upwardly firing cannons installed specifically to exploit this weakness.

It is curious why it never evolved as a defensive postion, the nose turrets on lancs were rarely used, in fact on Halifaxes they were removed entirely. Mid Uppers turrets were also not terribly effective as any thing other than a spare pair of eyes for the tail gunners, who were the most effective against NF attacks. I think weight (more room for bombs and fuel) and an operational need to be spartan with aircrew in a high attrition campaign were all part of the reason. Interestingly, statisitcally (I read it in a USAF historical branch appendix in the Strategic bombing survey years ago) the ball turret was the safest crew postion in terms of casualties of any American heavy bomber, they were also considered to have had little impact on the overall bomber defenses of B-17's and B-24's. Not that this influenced RAF thinking mind you but it is an interesting comparision.

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Thanks for posting all these pics. Lovely stuff . The blister is for H2S radar. It gave a radar picture of the ground as was used for ground mapping (remember most missions were at night) and target identification. Ventral barbettes were fitted on some early Lancasters. Can't remember the reason they were discarded. Possibly weight or lack of visibility. Perhaps someone can clarify? Ventral "dustbin" gun positions were also used on aircraft like the Wellington. These were retractable and were later modified for use with Leigh searchlights on costal command versions. Once again thanks for posting. Beautiful aircraft the Lanc. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:55 pm 
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blurrkup and Asterperious,

Thank you for both of your responses. They were very interesting and informative.

That H2S technology sounds like it was very useful. I never knew they had equipment that could do that.

Cheers,

David McIntosh


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:57 pm 
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Someone always gets in there before me! Must learn to type faster :D :D :D

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Mudge wrote:
Yeovilton pictures, please. Well...maybe not. I just watched the video and the place does, in fact, look quite dreary and uninviting. No offense intended. Just my observation.

Mudge the intrigued :shock:


Mudge, you're so easily discouraged. The Fleet Air Arm Museum's a great place to spend the day. It's one of the few museums where the exhibits are really accessible to the public. As for it being a bit on the dark side, well that's simply another challenge to the photographer, isn't it?

The FAAM opens up its reserve collection in Cobham Hall (across the road from the main FAAM site) a couple of time each year and it's well worth a trip.

Here are a some photos from last year's visits

Fleet Air Arm Museum http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=4883

FAAM Reserve Collection http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=5122


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:28 pm 
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Later in the war ,  it was expected Lancasters would be used more in daylight raids so the ventral gun was looked into again. Check this link http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=187016&sid=32ae04218f4eed396286cb1e8049a6bf

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:39 pm 
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There's a vast body of literature on Bomber Command tactics and issues. From a force that in 1940 couldn't find the target, by 1945 it was one of the most powerful weapons of war in history.

The lower turret was discarded because it was generally difficult to make a good, usable one, and they were generally ineffective, as well as creating drag and sometimes instability. As previous posters have said, the Luftwaffe took advantage of this weakness, and the few aircraft that came back after a 'Schräge Musik' ('Jazz or 'slanted music') attack didn't know what had hit them. Most did not come back. The Sperry ball turret was probably the only truly effective underside defence system in history. Canadian and Australian Bomber Command units experimented (independently) with ad hoc defensive experiments, but they were frowned upon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%A4ge_Musik

The Lancaster Navigator went from (in 1942/3 basically dead reckoning to in 1945 use of most of the modern aids an airways pilot today would recognise. I've just done an article on the Lanc Navigator for March 2008 Aeroplane, and researching it was fascinating; particularly as it's a role not often examined.

H2S was indeed named after the nasty smell, and as a code-name.

Cheers

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:52 pm 
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JDK wrote:
There's a vast body of literature on Bomber Command tactics and issues. From a force that in 1940 couldn't find the target, by 1945 it was one of the most powerful weapons of war in history.

The lower turret was discarded because it was generally difficult to make a good, usable one, and they were generally ineffective, as well as creating drag and sometimes instability. As previous posters have said, the Luftwaffe took advantage of this weakness, and the few aircraft that came back after a 'Schräge Musik' ('Jazz or 'slanted music') attack didn't know what had hit them. Most did not come back. The Sperry ball turret was probably the only truly effective underside defence system in history. Canadian and Australian Bomber Command units experimented (independently) with ad hoc defensive experiments, but they were frowned upon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%A4ge_Musik

The Lancaster Navigator went from (in 1942/3 basically dead reckoning to in 1945 use of most of the modern aids an airways pilot today would recognise. I've just done an article on the Lanc Navigator for March 2008 Aeroplane, and researching it was fascinating; particularly as it's a role not often examined.

H2S was indeed named after the nasty smell, and as a code-name.

Cheers


H2S was a pretty effective navigation radar, but made the aircraft very vulnerable to German fighters as they homed in on the radar signal.

Richar

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:56 pm 
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RMAllnutt wrote:
H2S was a pretty effective navigation radar, but made the aircraft very vulnerable to German fighters as they homed in on the radar signal.

Indeed. But more ironic still was a tail warning radar that itself was then used as a homing aid for the German night fighters...

The night skies over Germany were the first major battleground of airborne electronic warfare, and the see-saw of advantage (the first use of 'Window' and why it was delayed being typical) is a thrilling* story.






*Like 'awesome' but older.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:28 pm 
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Aaaaaaah, Hendon ! I really loved the place:

Here's a picture of her right side. Quite a lady, indeed:
Image

If you can't travel that far, come to our National Aviation Museum in Ottawa. We got a beautiful lady there too - P as in ??? :
Image

And she is accompagnied by this little unfriendly guy:
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 Post subject: Ottawa Lanc
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:55 pm 
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What ever happened to her repaint into diffferent Squadron colors./.. 424 sqn I think??

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:58 pm 
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Robbo wrote:
Mudge, you're so easily discouraged. The Fleet Air Arm Museum's a great place to spend the day. It's one of the few museums where the exhibits are really accessible to the public. As for it being a bit on the dark side, well that's simply another challenge to the photographer, isn't it?


I must admit those are extremely nice pics from the museum, probably the best I have ever seen from that venue. Apart from WAY too many folded wings, perhaps it is not so hopeless after all. On my must-see-someday list, anyway.

August


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