The Misinformed Public

muddyboots · **Posted:** Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:26 pm

don't bring them to an air show. Simple as that. The constitution protects my right to see and display them. If it was two walruses humping, I might see your issue. This is a historical display and should remain.

As for the Nazi symbol, Any jew who feels so offended by a reminder of what was done to his people and wants it removed should remember when the original perps get forgotten by the rest of us, and they come back for him...

Paul Krumrei · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:06 pm **Posts:** 1757

Does anyone have information on the original article and the contact information for the writer?

I would be interested in writting that person.

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:48 am

Some good points being made here, and mostly respectful discussion, which is also appreciated.

Going back to the original point, I'm not familiar with US or the appropriate state law, but it seems to me that the Wing need a better lawyer. The newspaper has no business publishing an anonymous letter - I'd expect it's standard policy not to do so for any reputable journal, and this, which is a form of defamation (claiming that the crew are Nazis by the fact they are carrying a swastika on their aircraft) could well be a case to discuss with legal backup with the paper in question - at the very least a rebuttal and correction should be straightforward to bring home.

Secondly, if the tug driver was responsible for damaging the aircraft's tailwheel, because it was towed incorrectly, I'd expect the FBO to pay for repairs - certainly not the wing's call.

We know there's a number of qualified US lawyers posting here; can we have some comment, and what would be even better, if possible, some pro-bono warbird work for these guys? Clearly the need a bit of support.

Just some thoughts from overseas, and I appreciate I may be well off beam, but rather than ranting and raving, wouldn't it be good to fix the problem(s)?

Cheers

Dan K · **Posted:** Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:52 am

(The original poster returns...)

I concur, James, with everything you stated.

This is simply another example of an unfortunate trend in "reputable" US newspapers: an increasing flirtation with tabloid journalism.

Newspaper sales continue to decline as more turn to the internet for news. Editors are willing to push the traditional envelope to maintain readership. Publishing potentially controversial (and anonymous) articles as "letters to the editor" has become the norm.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:28 am

James you are correct.
The newspaper here won't publish a letter unless the writers full name, address and phone is included. They even call to verify that it was really you and not someone using your name.
The FBO should be responsible for the damage they caused. That's what
insurance is for besides being the right thing to do.
BTW sent that same attorney after the city who refused the CAF use of their federally funded airport.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:45 am

from a jewish guy..... me!! leave the swastika. don't sanitize history, it's ignorant & irresponsible to give people "eye candy"

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

What do you do when they're not at an airshow? Make them wear blinders? Or just keep them locked up? How in the world are you going to keep them from seeing nudes now-a-days? I don't guess you want them hearing profanity either, but how do you avoid it? Don't get me wrong, kids don't need to see it or hear it, but I guarantee they get eyes & ears full of all of it at school & everywhere else, like it or not.

Wolverine wrote:

Tim Savage wrote:

This has been an interesting topic. I don't get offended by historic nose art, it is part of history. Whether I or others consider it crude or not, it is still history and should be preserved.

Let me throw a curve ball at you.

What can be said about the nose art that his made up by the owner that has no history whatsoever, and adorns an aircraft type that never or rarely wore nose art? Aircraft such as C-45s, T-6s, BT-13s, and many others rarely wore nose art, but yet when you walk the warbird line at any show you can see many examples. Some are really crude. A polished BT-13 comes to mind. If we are really all for historical accuracy shouldn't we be scorning these displays?

Just food for thought.

I really don't care on way or another, I made my choice when I owned an airplane that I could put various nose art on. I chose something that kids and families would enjoy. I have to tell you, the kids just flocked to the airplane. It was something they could relate to. Hopefully it planted the seed for some young child to explore the history of these great machines in more detail. In my opinion that is why we do what we do...to keep history alive. The only way to do that is to keep kids interested.

You may not be offended, but would you like your son viewing nudes at his age? I have three siblings under the age of ten, and I wouldn't like any of them seeing nudes.

I can also see why some people don't want flying swastikas on some aircraft (mainly in Germany itself). They want to ban the Nazi ideal from their country; it's not just forgetting what "they" (I use the term loosely, most people alive in Germany today were not involved in the war) did, it's making sure that their past doesn't come back to haunt them.

Django · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:22 am

I agree with you and that was not my intention. I don't recall the article stating the person raising the stink was a survivor of attrocities. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed it wasn't written by a survivor (misinformed public) and you shouldn't have assumed it was (a survivor)?

Since the thread is titled "misinformed public", ie people with no direct ties, that is who I was directing my comment, and I still stand by it.

fotobass wrote:

Django wrote:

What a shame.

My feeling is the swastika should stay on ALL surviving WWII German aircraft.

So the sight of the swastika on an aircraft gives them an uneasy feeling? Good, then they will never forget why exactly that is.

I would respectfully point out that you have, with this statement, completely dismissed anyone who, either personally or through personal family history, suffered directly under the Nazis.

I would have to think that anyone who lost family due to the persecution of the Nazis probably isn't likely to need reminding.

Having said that, I have no horse in this race either way. I would have a difficult time telling someone who was victimized by the Nazis to 'deal with it', though.

Paul Krumrei · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:06 pm **Posts:** 1757

I guess they should not watch CNN and see our guys get blown up with IED's either.

People like this should be taken out back behind the shed with a stick. ( my father speaking )

Lets ban veterans day, because of all the people that were killed by the hands of americans?

Lets ban everything, so we can just ban everything.

If anything, the man should take children and show them the photo's of those poor inocent people that were starved and gassed and tell them, see, this is what happens when one person in the world gets out of control and show them the destruction that one nation and one person can extend on other humans and tell them to learn from those mistakes made by others.

Sure, lets hide it, only to have it happen all over again and someone saying, "Well, I never knew THAT was wrong, because we never learned from what happened before."

Kind of like letting a dog crap on the floor and then just scooping it up, without whipping his ass with a newspaper and saying that is wrong.

Sorta of like people saying, Oh, that is so wrong for showing that , when they shoudl be saying OH MY GOD, how could another human be so evil?

Oh, I am not jewish, actually, full blooded German and even ex-military, it is terrible, terrible that war and human loss happens.

What a jackball for writing such garbage.

fotobass · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:21 am

Django wrote:

I agree with you and that was not my intention. I don't recall the article stating the person raising the stink was a survivor of attrocities. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed it wasn't written by a survivor (misinformed public) and you shouldn't have assumed it was (a survivor)?

Fair enough. There's a certain part of this thread that has taken that tack, and I think, based on wher yer post fell, that it was of that category. Sorry I misinterpreted your position.

But I confuse easily these days, so I could be completely high on crack...

rwdfresno · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:54 pm

Quote:

But I confuse easily these days, so I could be completely high on crack...

Here is some disturbing nose art for you.

Broken-Wrench · **Joined:** Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:37 pm **Posts:** 1197

The Internet is killing the newspapers and some resort to Tabloid tactics to increase circulation.. I have several family member who print papers and they say circulation is constantly going down

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11336

And now a word from the Simon Wiesenthal Museum of Tolerance Learning Center:

http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal.org/pages/nz.html

Featuring a conspicuous inclusion of swastikas...

http://motlc.learningcenter.wiesenthal. ... p41574.gif

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:08 pm

Not learning from our past seems very dangerous to me.

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