Time Is Running Out For the C-17

[Originalboxcar]

FYI

MILITARY STRATEGY AND INTEL


September 20, 2006: The United States has decided to cripple its ability to produce more C-17s by allowing the production line at Long Beach to shut down. How does this work? Simple, by letting the production line shut down, it will take billions of dollars and years, to re-start production. If, that is, the tooling is still available. In the past, when production lines have been shut down, tooling has been destroyed - Boeing did just that to the tooling for the MD-11 line in 2000. There are also problems finding factory space. You need a lot of floor space to build a C-17. And then there's the labor situation. All the experienced C-17 workers will have retired or gone to other factories. If you have to train new workers, build now tools, or build a new factory, it will take even more money and time (neither of which you might have) to re-start the line.

In August, suppliers of some long-lead time (up to three years) components for the C-17 were told by Boeing to cease production. This was the beginning of a process that would leave the United States unable to produce more of the world's best airlifter, abort a planned C-17B with even more capabilities than the C-17A, and force the Air Force to make do with an inadequate force of 198 C-17As and 112 C-5s (which first flew in 1968).

The C-17 manufacturer, Boeing, has been calling for orders since late 2005, and even paid out of pocket to keep the line open for nearly a year. However, its resources are much smaller than those of the Department of Defense, and Boeing announced it would soon start shutting down the production line.

However, NATO is trying to come to the rescue by planning on establishing a squadron of C-17s. This squadron will fulfill national missions for NATO members, while also giving NATO an organic ability to carry out various missions for the UN and EU (European Union), including humanitarian missions (to include the delivery of food, medicine, and even full-up field hospitals).

Thirteen countries, including the United States, have signed letters of intent for an initial batch of three or four aircraft. This is sufficient to keep the line open. NATO plans to keep the planes in the same configuration as those in service with the U.S. Air Force and Royal Air Force. The size of the squadron could increase as the various NATO countries scrape together more cash for future orders.

This is not the first time NATO has set up a joint squadron. When the E-3 AWACS aircraft entered service, NATO bought 18 of those planes, and regularly deployed them around its member countries (to bases in Norway, Greece, Italy, and Turkey) from a German base. Sweden is considering the purchase of at least two C-17s, while Canada is considering four planes. The United Kingdom has one C-17ER on order (to join four in service), and Australia four.

NATO needs to hurry. Suppliers of long-lead items are already beginning to shut down their production lines. This will have the effect of stopping C-17 production in July, 2009. As that date approaches, more of the suppliers will stop producing, and will begin to retool their production lines for other projects. Eventually, Boeing will do the same for its production line. When that happens, the production of what is arguably the world's best transport aircraft will end. The F-22 might have the sex appeal, but the C-17 is just as vital – if not more so. – Harold C. Hutchison (haroldc.hutchison@gmail.com)

Regards,

t~

[Paul Krumrei]

Here is my 2 pennies.

The use for Transporters is going to go away. Why? Because of the technology of UAV's and no need for troops to be in harms way.

Warfare as we know it is changing from the global mass of troops, ships aircraft, and other resources, because the battlefield has changed.

It has changed in the ways of not fighting a massive force anymore, but individual terrorists. So, need for these types of consentrated masses are not needed as much in the future.

Why hit someone a hundred times with a sledgehammer to kill them, when you can kill them with a pinprick to the heart?

Hell, pilots will probably wont even fly in a plane anymore within the next 20 years, they will be sitting behind a video display, battling like a video game.

[mrhenniger]

You can't take ground unless you physically move on it. Transports like the C-17s will always be needed to get the supplies to the troops on the ground. UAVs are very good tools in support of troups or intelligence gathering, but taking objectives can't be done from the air. You point about pilots is well taken. It is possible to imagine a day where a significant portion of the fighters and ground attack aircraft are UAVs.

Mike

[bdk]

News from September 12th:

NATO to acquire three C-17s

NATO today in Brussels, Belgium, said a coalition of 13 NATO nations has signed a letter of intent to purchase three C-17 Globemaster IIIs, with an option to acquire a fourth.

"We're extremely pleased that NATO has joined its international partners – the U.S, the U.K., Australia and Canada – in selecting the C-17 to meet its strategic airlift requirements," said Tommy Dunehew, Boeing International C-17 program manager. "Today's announcement confirms the C-17's position as the world's leading airlifter."

Subject to negotiation with NATO and the U.S. government, Boeing will deliver the first coalition C-17 as early as summer 2007. Members of the NATO coalition are: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovak Republic, Republic of Slovenia, and the United States. NATO said membership in the airlift fleet remains open to other nations and that some additional nations are considering joining.

Boeing will immediately enter into negotiations and work closely with NATO in an effort to have a contract signed by the NATO meeting in Riga, Latvia, in late November, said Dunehew.

NATO's announcement disclosed a plan to create a NATO Strategic Airlift Capability based at Ramstein Air Base in Germany. NATO said this capability will be flown by multinational aircrews and a multinational military structure will be created to command and control the aircraft. The C-17s will kick off this new capability.

While the NATO letter of intent is a positive development, Boeing leaders noted the C-17 program still faces an uncertain future. "As we announced on Aug. 18, without a long-term commitment from the U.S. government for additional aircraft, the C-17 production line will close in mid-2009," said Dave Bowman, Boeing vice president and C-17 program manager. "These NATO aircraft were already part of our production plan that extended the C-17's production run through mid-2009."

Bowman said Boeing continues to believe, based on independent analysis and testimony to the U.S. Congress, that the requirement for C-17s in the United States is greater than the 180 currently on order and scheduled for delivery to the U.S. Air Force.

"We appreciate NATO's vote of confidence in the C-17, and remain hopeful that C-17 production will continue beyond 2009, enabling Boeing to provide this critical airlift capability to the warfighters of the future," said Bowman.

For more on the NATO announcement, visit the organization's Web site.

http://www.nato.int/docu/pr/2006/p06-107e.htm

[WebPilot]

It is possible to imagine a day where a significant portion of the fighters and ground attack aircraft are UAVs.

Mike

That may well be the case, but they will still need some means to move them to the combat zone!

[RickH]

Trash haulers are here to stay. They move far more hard goods than people. I figure that most of the people are moved via contract airliners.

Brad are you out there ? Can you comment ?

[bdk]

Congress To Fund 10 More Boeing C-17 Cargo Planes
Associated Press Newswires 09/22/2006
Copyright 2006. The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

WASHINGTON (AP)--Congress will fund 10 new Boeing Co. C-17 cargo aircraft, lawmakers said Thursday, keeping production lines open longer at the company's Long Beach, Calif., plant.

The $2.1 billion in new money was being included in the annual defense spending bill. Negotiations on the bill were being completed Thursday evening.

The C-17 program had been in jeopardy after the Defense Department recommended buying no more aircraft beyond the 180 planned.

The last of the planes were set for delivery in 2008. Boeing told its C-17 work force in Long Beach last month that it would start shutting down production of the plane in 2009 unless the company received new orders.

The new funding is expected to keep the plant open through the end of 2009.

More than 5,500 workers are employed at the C-17 assembly plant in Long Beach, and more workers build components at other facilities in Missouri, Arizona and Georgia.

"The C-17 has been essential to our nation's combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as our global fight against terror and our international human relief efforts," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif.

"This funding is critical for continuing its production and it means that the thousands of Californians and others nationwide who are employed in its production will remain secure in their positions," she said.

Meanwhile, a new Government Accountability Office report criticized a Pentagon study that said the military doesn't need any more of the cargo planes.

The GAO said the Pentagon's study relied on inadequate data and questionable scenarios, yielding some results that were "incomplete, unclear, or contingent on further study."

The Pentagon has refused to release details of the study.

I think this brings the total number of C-17s that will be built to 205.

[tom d. friedman]

it's about time nato does something positive for the well being of the free world for a change, & our u.s. company. they always seem to be as useful as an unsticky band aid where ever they go.

[peter]

Not before we get ours delivered!

[Brad]

Trash haulers are here to stay. They move far more hard goods than people. I figure that most of the people are moved via contract airliners.

Brad are you out there ? Can you comment ?

That is pretty much the size of it. We carry very few troops back and forth from the US. Most of the troop movements are done by the civilians. We could do it, but we do it with much less effieciency. Moving troops from one overseas location to another, Intertheater airlift, is something that most of the contract airlines won't touch. Not so much because of the risk, but because the fields we operate from aren't suitable for them.

A great deal of the stuff we carry in and out of the warzones is humanitarian in nature rather than tanks, bullets and trucks. We always have to feed and clothe the folks we bomb so I think the transports will have a job for a long time to come. Besides, how do you think most of the UAV's get to the war zone?

[Broken-Wrench]

When are you going to start painting cluster bomblets like mres and giving them something else to eat on global warrior!

[chasd25]

this should help a bit:

Part of the new defense budget signed yesterday:

The measure also almost triples Bush's request for eight C-17 cargo planes, providing for 22 of the aircraft, which are built in Long Beach, California. Several components are manufactured at Boeing's St. Louis-based defense company.

[RickH]

Yeah, they neede to add at least one C-17 to make up for the C-5 that they wrecked !

[bdk]

First Australian C-17 rolls out

The first of four C-17s for the Royal Australian Air Force rolled out of Boeing's Long Beach, Calif., factory Tuesday and is now in the paint hangar. Over the next week, the aircraft will be painted gray and will receive its markings – an Australian flag and kangaroo on the fuselage and a stallion on its tail.

Aside from its unique Australian markings, the new C-17 will be identical in looks and capability to the U.S. Air Force C-17s that precede and follow it down the Boeing assembly line. After the new airlifter is painted, it will begin preparations for first flight, scheduled for late October.

The first Australian C-17 will be delivered to the customer in late November to await a welcoming ceremony in Canberra, Australia's capital city, in early December. The RAAF's first C-17 will arrive at its new home, RAAF Base Amberley, west of Brisbane, the following day.

The second Australian C-17 is scheduled for delivery in 2007 and the final two will be delivered in 2008.

[RMAllnutt]

it's about time nato does something positive for the well being of the free world for a change, & our u.s. company. they always seem to be as useful as an unsticky band aid where ever they go.

Tom... NATO has participated significantly in at least two important operations. The mess in the Balkans, and in Afghanistan too. Individual NATO nations have also contributed a great deal in many other operations. You might want to be a little more careful to check your facts before casting aspersions.

Cheers. Richard