Beware your Local Airport Photography
Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:16 pm
I was hassled today for taking a photograph of a military C-26 Metroliner at a city owned airport. (Ft. Worth, Texas) the aircraft was on the ramp in public view. I parked next to some other cars near the fence, got out took 2 photos through the fence. As I was leaving the parking area a man it a truck stopped me and asked me if I worked "there" (the hanger he pointed to said "ATK Alliant Techsystems" on it) I answered no...he was on the phone an soon a man in Air Force BDU's and another in black T-shirt with a badge at his hip and a man with an city airport shirt and radio came and asked me to erase the photograhps. They asked for my name and address...I showed them my D/L. They told me I was in a "restricted area" and furthermore "Photography is not allowed at the airport" I politely complied and left the area.
I have been taking photographs at this airport for 25 years....never had this kind of hassle.
Just beware of where and what you are photgraphing....
WARNING: personal opinion follows...
I guess the terrorists have won....
I have been taking photographs at this airport for 25 years....never had this kind of hassle.
Just beware of where and what you are photgraphing....
WARNING: personal opinion follows...
I guess the terrorists have won....
Last edited by Ztex on Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:32 pm
Ztex...Went through much the same at the Martinsburg, WV airport. I was taking pics just to see what different lenses would do in certain circumstances and an AP told me I couldn't take pictures of the military a/c from that area. OK, says I and merely drove over to the civilian side and took all the pics I needed to. Same a/c, just a different mind set.
And you're right. Every time we have to change our way of doing things for "security" reasons, the bastids have won another round.
Mudge the involuntarily protected
And you're right. Every time we have to change our way of doing things for "security" reasons, the bastids have won another round.
Mudge the involuntarily protected
Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:05 pm
Was at Brantford Air Port ( Canada ) taking pictures of a CF18 today with no trouble at all. Had security watching but did not say anything. Too bad the world has to be this way
Cheers Dave C
Cheers Dave C
Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:16 pm
Were there any signs stating that the area was private property? Did they tell you what ordinance was being violated?
If you are on private property and it was posted "No Tresspassing" they may have a point and can give you a ticket, but they cannot legally make you erase the photos.
If you are on private property and it was posted "No Tresspassing" they may have a point and can give you a ticket, but they cannot legally make you erase the photos.
Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:22 pm
bdk wrote:Were there any signs stating that the area was private property? Did they tell you what ordinance was being violated?
If you are on private property and it was posted "No Tresspassing" they may have a point and can give you a ticket, but they cannot legally make you erase the photos.
I agree... BDK is right in this manner. Those men had absolutely no authority to tell you to do this if there were no restricted signs up. They couldn't even ask you to leave. A lot of people seem to have lost their train of thought in these times, and many of them exceed their authority and do things just like this. It utterly disgusts me that this sort of thing can happen here at home! Stand up for your civil rights next time, I would!
Richard
Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:38 pm
This is unbelievable!!!
It's probably a good thing you didn't have a bottle of Gatorade with you...that rent-a-cope would've probably slapped the cuffs on you and brought in the bomb sniffing dogs.
John
It's probably a good thing you didn't have a bottle of Gatorade with you...that rent-a-cope would've probably slapped the cuffs on you and brought in the bomb sniffing dogs.
John
Mon Aug 28, 2006 7:52 pm
Take a looksee HERE...
Due to the nature of the business ATK is in, this may be somewhat understandable. But, as already stated, unless
there is a notice posted specifically prohibiting photography you should have a perfect legal right to take photos. If there's
something in that area that they want to protect from public view, then they should make sure that the area is not viewable
by the public. Pure and simple.
The assertion that "Photography is not allowed at the airport" is, in my opinion, bull. Check your local laws on that one...
As to their 'request' that you erase the photos... I'd have told them to take flyin' leap... politely, of course...
Fade to Black...
Due to the nature of the business ATK is in, this may be somewhat understandable. But, as already stated, unless
there is a notice posted specifically prohibiting photography you should have a perfect legal right to take photos. If there's
something in that area that they want to protect from public view, then they should make sure that the area is not viewable
by the public. Pure and simple.
The assertion that "Photography is not allowed at the airport" is, in my opinion, bull. Check your local laws on that one...
As to their 'request' that you erase the photos... I'd have told them to take flyin' leap... politely, of course...
Fade to Black...
Last edited by CWBuff on Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:00 pm
It all depends on where you are standing. When we got popped at Whiteman, they looked at the photos and then asked us to erase them. His big gun convinced my brother to erase them. Then he told us where to go to take photos. Even showed us on the map on how to get there. 
The "planes on poles" are okay to shoot just not the ones on the ground (gate guard excluded).
Then at Nellis, we got there in time to watch the 'Birds fly in. They even have a grandstand on the flight line for you to sit on. I got some nice pics of an Eagle and Raptor playing.
The only place we couldn't take a photo in was the 'Birds hanger.
they looked at the photos and then asked us to erase them. His big gun convinced my brother to erase them. Then he told us where to go to take photos. Even showed us on the map on how to get there. The "planes on poles" are okay to shoot just not the ones on the ground (gate guard excluded).
Then at Nellis, we got there in time to watch the 'Birds fly in. They even have a grandstand on the flight line for you to sit on. I got some nice pics of an Eagle and Raptor playing.
The only place we couldn't take a photo in was the 'Birds hanger.
Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:23 pm
All bets are off ON a military base.
Mon Aug 28, 2006 8:59 pm
A clear case of a junior security guard exceeding his authority.
It's never a good idea (unless you are a photojournalist) to get into an argument with the guy exceeding his authority. It's not going to go anywhere constructive.
You can, however, ask to see the instruction forbidding photography. As there won't be one, that may resolve the issue. If not, it's time to up the antie. "I want to speak with your superior" would be my next step.
Its interesting that the USA having positively Stalinist security these days - likewise countries with decades of terrorist problems (who could be learned from, either by learning or deciding to go a different route - such as Britain, Spain, Italy, Canada with the Quebec separatists... etc.) have nothing like the over-reactions occurring across the USA to the detriment of both the famous American liberty and the future of aviation among other problems.
From the link that Peter four oh posted:
Regards
It's never a good idea (unless you are a photojournalist) to get into an argument with the guy exceeding his authority. It's not going to go anywhere constructive.
You can, however, ask to see the instruction forbidding photography. As there won't be one, that may resolve the issue. If not, it's time to up the antie. "I want to speak with your superior" would be my next step.
Its interesting that the USA having positively Stalinist security these days - likewise countries with decades of terrorist problems (who could be learned from, either by learning or deciding to go a different route - such as Britain, Spain, Italy, Canada with the Quebec separatists... etc.) have nothing like the over-reactions occurring across the USA to the detriment of both the famous American liberty and the future of aviation among other problems.
From the link that Peter four oh posted:
Ironically, unrestricted photography by private citizens has played an integral role in protecting the freedom, security, and well-being of all Americans. Photography in the United States has an established history of contributing to improvements in civil rights, curbing abusive child labor practices, and providing important information to crime investigators. Photography has not contributed to a decline in public safety or economic vitality in the United States. When people think back on the acts of domestic terrorism that have occurred over the last twenty years, none have depended on or even involved photography. Restrictions on photography would not have prevented any of these acts. Furthermore, the increase in people carrying small digital and cell phone cameras has resulted in the prevention of crimes and the apprehension of criminals.
Regards
Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:02 pm
True. However a lot of airports that have a military presence have photo rules. To me, it's not worth the hassle.bdk wrote:All bets are off ON a military base.
Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:18 pm
I love it when your are driving through the ramp gate at Logan and there is a sign saying "No Cameras, $10k fine".
Take a look at the logan pictures on Airliners.net, Most of them are airside!
Take a look at the logan pictures on Airliners.net, Most of them are airside!
Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:28 pm
...just to repeat what I posted on another thread...plus some thoughts on air travel in the USA...
(I know this is not strictly about "airport photos", but someone mentioned problems at military bases, so...)
This summer I made written contact with both Whiteman AFB & Offutt AFB Public Affairs Offices several weeks before my visits to those AFB's, specifically requesting permission to photograph a/c just inside their restricted areas (B29 at Whiteman & B17 at Offutt).
While it took a few days to arrange, in both cases permission was given to me, cheerfully, and I had to wait only a few minutes at each base for my escort(s), who could not have been more cordial and helpful.
As far as taking pictures at non-miltary airports and being hasseled by "security"...just watch a few epsiodes of "Cops" sometime before giving a person with a badge & a gun some lip...trust me, not worth it...being "right" has little to do when confronted by Barney Fife. Hearing of fellow WIXers being hasseled on public property for taking pictures, I feel SO much safer now, don't you?
And, I have to tell you, as a frequent flyer (both Domestic & International) in Spam Cans for business, I feel SO much safer without my eye drops & toothpaste in my carry-on, don't you?
It just gets better & better this TSA thing...I got the "random" full body search (exterior only please) two weeks ago in Beantown...very polite (mildly embarrased) TSA older gentleman. I feel SO much safer now, don't you?
(I know this is not strictly about "airport photos", but someone mentioned problems at military bases, so...)
This summer I made written contact with both Whiteman AFB & Offutt AFB Public Affairs Offices several weeks before my visits to those AFB's, specifically requesting permission to photograph a/c just inside their restricted areas (B29 at Whiteman & B17 at Offutt).
While it took a few days to arrange, in both cases permission was given to me, cheerfully, and I had to wait only a few minutes at each base for my escort(s), who could not have been more cordial and helpful.
As far as taking pictures at non-miltary airports and being hasseled by "security"...just watch a few epsiodes of "Cops" sometime before giving a person with a badge & a gun some lip...trust me, not worth it...being "right" has little to do when confronted by Barney Fife. Hearing of fellow WIXers being hasseled on public property for taking pictures, I feel SO much safer now, don't you?
And, I have to tell you, as a frequent flyer (both Domestic & International) in Spam Cans for business, I feel SO much safer without my eye drops & toothpaste in my carry-on, don't you?
It just gets better & better this TSA thing...I got the "random" full body search (exterior only please) two weeks ago in Beantown...very polite (mildly embarrased) TSA older gentleman. I feel SO much safer now, don't you?
Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:58 pm
Thanks for all the support.
I am aware of the business that ATK is in. That is why I wanted the pic of the aircraft... BUT:
The aircraft was visible from off airport property, that's how I saw it in the 1st place.
There were no signs placing restrictions on my movement where I was photographing.
The aircraft ultimately departed the field from the public runway between a Piper Arrow and a King Air. ( I was too late to photog this)
There were 4 very determined men facing me...one with a badge, one in Air Force uniform, one with the city, one a do-gooder working for ATK (on the way home from work when he saw me)
I was in no way in a position to start an argument about my rights...I did, politely, let them know how stupid I thought they were...how I could go home and get the long lens and take the shot...how I had been taking pis for years..how I belong to the museum on the field..and we take lots of pics from the museum...duh!
I found this on theCity web site...CITY CODE, Part 2 Division V...
Sec. 3-148. Photography; movie productions; polls.
(a) It shall be unlawful to utilize photographic or moving picture equipment for the purpose of picture-taking or moving picture photography in or near any area designated as a restricted area within the airport unless such person has obtained a permit from the airport director.
The definition of "Restricted Area" is as follows...Restricted area - shall mean any portion of the airport to which no ingress is permitted except upon specific authorization by the director.
So the guy from the City was "correct" is saying "Photography is not allowed at the airport"
I did mention to him there was a fly-in at the field, with hundreds of people with cameras...JUST LAST WEEKEND!
Oh well. so much for Freedom...
I am aware of the business that ATK is in. That is why I wanted the pic of the aircraft... BUT:
The aircraft was visible from off airport property, that's how I saw it in the 1st place.
There were no signs placing restrictions on my movement where I was photographing.
The aircraft ultimately departed the field from the public runway between a Piper Arrow and a King Air. ( I was too late to photog this)
There were 4 very determined men facing me...one with a badge, one in Air Force uniform, one with the city, one a do-gooder working for ATK (on the way home from work when he saw me)
I was in no way in a position to start an argument about my rights...I did, politely, let them know how stupid I thought they were...how I could go home and get the long lens and take the shot...how I had been taking pis for years..how I belong to the museum on the field..and we take lots of pics from the museum...duh!
I found this on theCity web site...CITY CODE, Part 2 Division V...
Sec. 3-148. Photography; movie productions; polls.
(a) It shall be unlawful to utilize photographic or moving picture equipment for the purpose of picture-taking or moving picture photography in or near any area designated as a restricted area within the airport unless such person has obtained a permit from the airport director.
The definition of "Restricted Area" is as follows...Restricted area - shall mean any portion of the airport to which no ingress is permitted except upon specific authorization by the director.
So the guy from the City was "correct" is saying "Photography is not allowed at the airport"
I did mention to him there was a fly-in at the field, with hundreds of people with cameras...JUST LAST WEEKEND!
Oh well. so much for Freedom...
Re: Beware your Local Airport Photography
Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:09 pm
I can still hear ,NIP IT ,NIP IT,NIP IT IN THE BUD!!!
[quote="Ztex"]I was hassled today for taking a photograph of a military C-26 Metroliner at a city owned airport. I answered no...he was on the phone an soon a man in Air Force BDU's and another in black T-shirt with a badge at his hip and a man with an city airport shirt and radio came and asked me to erase the photograhps.
I can hear it ,NIP IT ,NIIIIIIIIIIP IT,NIP IT IN THE BUD!!!
[quote="Ztex"]I was hassled today for taking a photograph of a military C-26 Metroliner at a city owned airport. I answered no...he was on the phone an soon a man in Air Force BDU's and another in black T-shirt with a badge at his hip and a man with an city airport shirt and radio came and asked me to erase the photograhps.
I can hear it ,NIP IT ,NIIIIIIIIIIP IT,NIP IT IN THE BUD!!!