Could you build a Curtiss SBC Helldiver? ...

[Mark Allen M]

A lot to it for sure.

Requiring a new two-seat fighter, the US Navy ordered a prototype from Curtiss in 1932 under the designation XF12C-1. This Curtiss Model 73 flew for the first time during 1933, in the form of a two-seat parasol-wing monoplane with retractable landing gear powered by a 466kW Wright R-1510-92 Whirlwind 14 engine. When, at the end of the year, it was decided to use this aircraft in a scout capacity, its designation was changed to XS4C-1. Following yet another change of heart, its role became that of a scout-bomber in January 1934 and a Wright R-1820 Cyclone engine was installed. Extensive trials followed, and during a dive test in September 1934 there was structural failure of the wing and the XSBC-1, as it had been designated, was damaged extensively.

The parasol wing was clearly unsuitable for the dive-bombing requirement, and a new prototype was ordered as the XSBC-2 (Model 77), this having biplane wings and a 522kW Wright R-1510-12 Whirlwind 14 engine. When, in March 1936, this engine was replaced by a 522kW Pratt & Whitney R-1535-82 Twin Wasp Junior engine, and the designation changed yet again to XSBC-3. The production SBC-3 (Model 77A), of which the US Navy ordered 83 on 29 August 1936, was generally similar and the first deliveries, to Navy Squadron VS-5, were made on 17 July 1937.

A late production SBC-3 was used as the prototype of an improved XSBC-4 (Model 77B) with a more powerful Wright R-1820-22 engine. Following an initial contract of 5 January 1938, the first of 174 production examples of the SBC-4 for the US Navy was delivered in March 1939. Because of the desperate situation in Europe in early 1940, the US Navy diverted 50 of its SBC-4s to France but these were received too late to be used in combat. Five were recovered for use by the RAF, and these were issued to RAF Little Rissington for allocation as ground trainers under the designation Cleveland. The US Navy's deficiency of 50 aircraft was made good by delivery of 50 out of the 90 aircraft which had been in production for France. Retaining the SBC-4 designation, these differed from standard in having self-sealing fuel tanks.

By the time the USA became involved in World War II, the SBC-3s had become obsolescent, but SBC-4s were then in service with US Navy Squadrons VB-8 and VS-8 on board the USS Hornet and with US Marine Squadron VMO-151.

MODEL Curtiss SBC-4
ENGINE 1 x 671kW Wright R-1820-34 Cyclone 9 radial piston engine
WEIGHTS
Take-off weight 3211 kg 7079 lb
Empty weight 2065 kg 4553 lb
DIMENSIONS
Wingspan 10.36 m 34 ft 0 in
Length 8.57 m 28 ft 1 in
Height 3.17 m 10 ft 5 in
Wing area 29.45 m2 317.00 sq ft
PERFORMANCE
Max. speed 377 km/h 234 mph
Cruise speed 282 km/h 175 mph
Ceiling 7315 m 24000 ft
Range w/max payload 652 km 405 miles
ARMAMENT 2 x 7.62mm machine-guns, 1 x 227kg bomb

[Saabmeister]

Always thought it was a shame none of these survived, it's such a good looking bird.

[AG pilot]

What a great bunch of factory images!

[Saville]

The answer to the question in the subject line is of course - yes.

All it takes is enough money.

[JohnB]

It's well known that we gave many (40-60) to France, after they were extensively overhauled. However, France fell before their carrier made it back, so it ported in Martinque, where it say out the war. The planes were never used, or perhaps even flown. I have always wondered if they went back to France or if they were off loaded on the island.
If so, there might be some parts out there.

Last edited by JohnB on Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Chris Brame]

44 of them. They were offloaded at Martinique and allowed to rot away there (along with 15 new Curtiss Hawks, 6 Brewster Buffalos and 25 Stinson 108s) and supposedly were eventually scrapped. In the early '70s there was a mention in Air Classics that "some vestiges of these aircraft may still be present". I'm guessing nobody found the vestiges.

The Hennepin County (MN) Library site has a shot of this one:

BuNo on fin looks like 1812, which ended up as an instructional airframe at NAS Jacksonville; but the prop is apparently from BuNo 1831, which met the same fate in Chicago. (First time I've seen serials on the prop blades, too.)

[Dave Hadfield]

Amazing post -- thorough!

[jdvoss]

Inland from San Diego (CA) lies a large body of water called the Salton Sea. During WWII the USN establised a NAAS at the southern end and the northern end was a B&G /Torpedo range utilized by NAAS Salton Sea, NAAS Holtville, MCAS El Centro et.al. As you might imagine the Salton Sea claimed number of aircraft during these training operations. The Summer 2021 issue of the AAHS Journal has an article titled "The Lost Aircraft of Salton Sea Lake" begining of page 137. The author (John Halczak) has a listing of the aircraft and BuNos of the wrecks that lie there mostly TBM Avengers, FM-1 Wildcats, a smattering of other types including a CURTISS SBC-4 HELLDIVER BuNo 4222!

Now the Salton Sea is not very deep averaging about 30 feet and 50 ft at the deepest points. The problem lies in that the water is highly polluted (lateral visibility of about 3 feet) and of course many of the aircraft are tombs. Other wreckages include PBY, PB2Y O-52, P-39, F6F, F4U and SB2C.

JDVoss

[jdvoss]

Inland from San Diego (CA) lies a large body of water called the Salton Sea. During WWII the USN establised a NAAS at the southern end and the northern end was a B&G /Torpedo range utilized by NAAS Salton Sea, NAAS Holtville, MCAS El Centro et.al. As you might imagine the Salton Sea claimed number of aircraft during these training operations. The Summer 2021 issue of the AAHS Journal has an article titled "The Lost Aircraft of Salton Sea Lake" begining of page 137. The author (John Halczak) has a listing of the aircraft and BuNos of the wrecks that lie there mostly TBM Avengers, FM-1 Wildcats, a smattering of other types including a CURTISS SBC-4 HELLDIVER BuNo 4222!

Now the Salton Sea is not very deep averaging about 30 feet and 50 ft at the deepest points. The problem lies in that the water is highly polluted (lateral visibility of about 3 feet) and of course many of the aircraft are tombs. Other wreckages include PBY, PB2Y O-52, P-39, F6F, F4U and SB2C.

JDVoss

[junkman9096]

To say nothing of 70-80 years of water salt exposure. 60 parts per thousand vs 35 ppt in ocean water.

[jdvoss]

RE:The aircraft off-loaded at Martinique
I did read some years ago that after the war the aircraft were re-loaded onto the carrier Bearn and were subsequenty "Deep Sixed".

JDVoss

[Mark Sampson]

A fascinating look at a nearly forgotten aircraft-thanks! The SBC has always interested me, although I wouldn't have wanted to fly one in combat against the Japanese in 1942.
I'd love to see one re-created, but the time and money required makes it certain that it won't happen. So it goes.

[Michel Lemieux]

Great post Mr. Mark!

I have one.....in 1/72 scale

[Michel Lemieux]

Delete....duplicate!

[bdk]

To say nothing of 70-80 years of water salt exposure. 60 parts per thousand vs 35 ppt in ocean water.

Wasn't a Helldiver recovered from there about 5 years ago?

Sorry, I was thinking of Otay Reservoir...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37494&p=375504&hilit=sb2c+recovery#p375504