Plan to recover USS Lexington TBDs and F4F

[Warbirdnerd]

It would really be something if Taras and company can pull this off...
https://usslexingtonaircraftrecoveryproject.com/

Last edited by Warbirdnerd on Wed Jan 11, 2023 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[kalamazookid]

The full proposal can be read here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dVvjSz ... WJ2cy/view

The proposal is a massive document, but even a quick scan is fascinating to read through. Aircraft histories, proposals for documenting the recovery and artifacts, conservation and preservation practices, institutions involved, etc. can all be found in this document.

A&T's reputation and history with underwater recoveries is unmatched. I hope their reputation and expertise as well as the through proposal will lead to a successful recovery. It would be a real shame for the Navy to sit on this and not allow recovery to take place. The significance of the F4F-3 airframe and chance to potentially recover multiple examples of TBDs, an aircraft for which there are currently no survivors on land, cannot be overstated.

[JohnB]

Just don't tell TIGHAR!

[RyanShort1]

It may not matter much, but I contacted my elected representative to ask her to encourage the navy to allow this to move forward.

[Mark Allen M]

Who would pay for the exorbitant costs involved with any of these recoveries?

[OD/NG]

Who would pay for the exorbitant costs involved with any of these recoveries?

Is this a serious question? I think we already know the answer to that - several wealthy individuals would! One person who recently paid the most amount money in history for a complete warbird collection comes to mind, as well as several others. I know there are a few wealthy individuals who are currently "off the radar", but would have no problem spending 10's of millions to establish their own warbird collections.

I talked to Taras a while back about this very issue and he told me that there were some wealthy people who were interested in this recovery. One of them could have very easily funded this entire project with ease since the amount of money would be considered "pocket change" to them. I won't say who this was, as I don't think this is in the public realm. If Taras wishes to talk about this publically, then it is his call, not mine.

At a cost of only $8 Million to $15 Million for the entire project, I think that's quite the bargain, actually.

So, let's break down the numbers to illustrate this point.

Total cost: 8 Million to 15 Million

Total aircraft to be recovered: 4 to 9

So, for the extremes we have the cost as follows:

For 4 aircraft recovered, the average cost would be: $2 Million to $3.75 Million per aircraft

For 9 aircraft recovered, the average cost would be: $888,888 to $1.67 Million per aircraft


For those numbers, you would be obtaining a currently extinct aircraft, the TBD, which has great historical significance as well as O'Hare's Wildcat. It could be argued that both aircraft would be the most historically significant aircraft at Pensacola, should the U.S. Navy support and fund this operation.

Given that most fully restored and airworthy Allied W.W.II single-engine fighters go for around $2.5 Million to around $5 - 6 Million, the above figures are very cheap and you would be gaining several "holy grail"/extinct aircraft to boot!

I really hope they can pull this off as it would be the aircraft recovery coup of the century!

[kalamazookid]

One other aspect of this that is particularly exciting with regard to the TBDs is to have airframes that are conserved or preserved as is and others airframes that can be completely restored. I think back to the many debates that were had over the fate of the Finnish Buffalo. Having multiple airframes negates the need for this debate. We can have an airframe or airframes conserved as educational tools and original artifacts, while others can be completely restored and displayed (or flown?) as complete airframes.

[florida.warbirds]

Who would pay for the exorbitant costs involved with any of these recoveries?

Looks like the National Naval Aviation Museum Foundation is onboard with this and they have some cash.

[Mark Allen M]

Who would pay for the exorbitant costs involved with any of these recoveries?

Is this a serious question?

Yep! it is. All your points are valid .... to the less than .1% of folks who care about these old airplanes. But even the wealthy very small percentage of folks who are aviation enthusiasts would be wise enough to weigh the cost of recovery and preservation/restoration of these deep survivors to the risks involved with failure of any of the recovery. When you add the US Navy to the equation and the justification of possibly using taxpayer money for any costs involved, you may have difficulties there.

Seems like a fragile and expensive (but not impossible) endeavor with a risk to value equation that seems high IMHO.

But this is all just my opinion. I hope it all happens and some of these planes come back up from a selfish perspective.

[OD/NG]

Who would pay for the exorbitant costs involved with any of these recoveries?

Is this a serious question?

Yep! it is. All your points are valid .... to the less than .1% of folks who care about these old airplanes. But even the wealthy very small percentage of folks who are aviation enthusiasts would be wise enough to weigh the cost of recovery and preservation/restoration of these deep survivors to the risks involved with failure of any of the recovery. When you add the US Navy to the equation and the justification of possibly using taxpayer money for any costs involved, you may have difficulties there.

Seems like a fragile and expensive (but not impossible) endeavor with a risk to value equation that seems high IMHO.

But this is all just my opinion. I hope it all happens and some of these planes come back up from a selfish perspective.

I don't disagree with any of that, I just hope it happens! One thing that gives me hope and confidence is Taras's proven track record of successful recoveries. To my knowledge, all of his recoveries have been done safely and without damaging any aircraft. If anybody can do it, it's him, imo. I actually trust him more than the U.S. Navy for this endeavor.

[bdk]

Has A&T recovered anything at the depths involved? No question that they are the leaders at recovering aircraft like this intact.

[OD/NG]

Has A&T recovered anything at the depths involved? No question that they are the leaders at recovering aircraft like this intact.

I don't think so, but I'm not positive. When I talked to Taras about this potential recovery a few years ago, he told me that it was within his capability to recover the aircraft. I don't know much about the technical details and we didn't discuss it. I know he is a member here, so hopefully he can pop into this thread and answer some of our common questions, including this one.

[Dan K]

Who would pay for the exorbitant costs involved with any of these recoveries?

Isn't that entity identified on page 15 of the "full proposal"?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dVvjSz ... WJ2cy/view

[Mark Allen M]

Potential and Definite have a vast separation.

[marine air]

This is very exciting. It is reminiscent of when they found the Confederate submarine, the CSS Hunley. It took a few years to organize efforts and raise the funds but it came to fruition. Then it was soaked in freshwater for years to leach the salt out of it . I hope they can raise all nine aircraft or as many as they are able to locate on or near the carrier. They would all be combat veterans. The Navy and it's contractors no doubt have the experience to go down to those depths. Taras must be the ultimate expert at how to bring them up without damaging or destroying them.
There is only one shot to bag a Devastator or Wildcat flown by an MOH and ace that was KIA.