Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:22 pm
Anyone know how many aircraft with Tuskegee Airmen service history are still around? I am only aware of four:
The Tuskegee Airmen National Historic Site has a PT-17, 41-8273, and a J3L, NC38893, on display. However, it is not clear if either of them actually were used by the Tuskegee Airmen.[9][10]
An honorable mention is the V-77, c/n 77-272, at the National Museum of World War II Aviation. While it wasn't used by the Tuskegee Airmen, it was owned by a Tuskegee Airman for 60 years after the war and used by the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War II.[11][12][13]
I imagine their might be a bunch of J3s with time at the school still out there.
- PT-13D, 42-17724 - National Museum of African American History and Culture[1][2][3]
- PT-17, 41-25454 - Collings Foundation[4]
- PT-19A, 43-31512 - Collings Foundation[5]
- T-6G, 49-3292 - Tuskegee Airmen National Historical Museum[6][7] (previously AT-6C, 42-48884)[8]
The Tuskegee Airmen National Historic Site has a PT-17, 41-8273, and a J3L, NC38893, on display. However, it is not clear if either of them actually were used by the Tuskegee Airmen.[9][10]
An honorable mention is the V-77, c/n 77-272, at the National Museum of World War II Aviation. While it wasn't used by the Tuskegee Airmen, it was owned by a Tuskegee Airman for 60 years after the war and used by the Royal Canadian Air Force during World War II.[11][12][13]
I imagine their might be a bunch of J3s with time at the school still out there.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Mon Mar 15, 2021 10:19 pm
I have some backseat time in the T-6.
Back in 2004 when owned by Steve Cowell, I got a media ride and some stick time in it.
He told me he bought it without knowing its history, which only came to light after getting the aircraft's history card. He then had it restored by the Ezell shop.
My records match the AT-6C serial 42-48884, but I logged the T-6G serial as 49-3190.
Back in 2004 when owned by Steve Cowell, I got a media ride and some stick time in it.
He told me he bought it without knowing its history, which only came to light after getting the aircraft's history card. He then had it restored by the Ezell shop.
My records match the AT-6C serial 42-48884, but I logged the T-6G serial as 49-3190.
Last edited by JohnB on Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:46 am
I imagine their might be a bunch of J3s with time at the school still out there.
There area number of Cubs that claim to be ex-TA aircraft, but none of them actually are legit. I tried to buy one for my local Tuskegee Airmen chapter to restore and quickly found out it was bogus.
If anybody knows of a real one, I'm all ears.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:02 pm
Add TB-25N 44-30635, formerly at Chanute AFB:
When the museum closed in 2015 it was transferred to the Southern Museum of Flight in Birmingham, AL. They will be restoring it as it looked when it was based at Tuskegee AAF in July 1945. Not sure how far they've gotten with it; this is from a year ago:
https://www.birminghamtimes.com/2020/02 ... takes-off/
When the museum closed in 2015 it was transferred to the Southern Museum of Flight in Birmingham, AL. They will be restoring it as it looked when it was based at Tuskegee AAF in July 1945. Not sure how far they've gotten with it; this is from a year ago:
https://www.birminghamtimes.com/2020/02 ... takes-off/
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:07 am
Vultee BT-13 Valiant
I am still looking for a period photo of a TU marked BT-13 and a Beech AT-10 as well. My need is to complete the aircraft photos for Tuskegee AAF portion of my website of http://www.fuselagecodes.com . I have original color photos already posted of the AT-6 and B-25. As a point of interest the PT-17's DID NOT carry "TU" markings per a T.O edict. Of course that didn't mean it didn't happen! See my photo gallery for the stateside British Flying Training Schools.
Please keep me in mind when reviewing Tuskegee photos.
Thanking you in advance,
JDVoss
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
I am still looking for a period photo of a TU marked BT-13 and a Beech AT-10 as well. My need is to complete the aircraft photos for Tuskegee AAF portion of my website of http://www.fuselagecodes.com . I have original color photos already posted of the AT-6 and B-25. As a point of interest the PT-17's DID NOT carry "TU" markings per a T.O edict. Of course that didn't mean it didn't happen! See my photo gallery for the stateside British Flying Training Schools.
Please keep me in mind when reviewing Tuskegee photos.
Thanking you in advance,
JDVoss
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:06 am
In process of researching another potential trainer at Tuskegee AAF in the first half of 1944 under the CPT program...stay tuned...
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:27 am
It has been widely claimed that P51D "Tall in the Saddle" is a genuine Tuskegee aircraft, and the history section on the Hangar 11 site seems pretty conclusive. However, I have also heard claims that this may not be the case and that its exact service in the MTO can't be verified due to loss of records. Can anyone elaborate further?
http://www.hangar11.co.uk/mustang.html# ... 20of%20WW2.
http://www.hangar11.co.uk/mustang.html# ... 20of%20WW2.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:51 pm
No missing records, no mystery, just a lot of baseless BS put around to justify a spurious claim
The history of this aircraft is well documented, I myself have pulled a copy of the (supposedly missing) record card from Maxwell AFB, together with a document they helpfully provided giving a full history of the aircraft via an interpretation of the abbreviations on it. Firm documentary evidence of its history #1.
It was shipped to Italy in early-1945, and arrived back in the US later that year
In the meantime, it appears on a USAAF survey of aircraft in Italy in April 1945, listed as being assigned to the 31st FG (who had diagonal stripes of red paint across the tail surfaces of their aircraft). I have been sent a copy of this. Firm documentary evidence of its history #2.
The whole ‘Tuskegee’ myth was put around by the owner, with no documentary evidence being produced, only the claim of some red paint supposedly being found on the tail section (no photos have been produced to support this) so “it must have served with the 332nd FG” (based on no evidence other than the fact it was shipped to Italy and some red paint was allegedly found on the tail section).
The story has now grown over time, so that it is now claimed to be George Hardy’s original “Tall in the Saddle” and the red paint has supposedly been proven by analysis to be original 332nd FG paint (a claim made in a recent ‘Flight Journal’ article)
I’m calling BS on the whole myth.
The history of this aircraft is well documented, I myself have pulled a copy of the (supposedly missing) record card from Maxwell AFB, together with a document they helpfully provided giving a full history of the aircraft via an interpretation of the abbreviations on it. Firm documentary evidence of its history #1.
It was shipped to Italy in early-1945, and arrived back in the US later that year
In the meantime, it appears on a USAAF survey of aircraft in Italy in April 1945, listed as being assigned to the 31st FG (who had diagonal stripes of red paint across the tail surfaces of their aircraft). I have been sent a copy of this. Firm documentary evidence of its history #2.
The whole ‘Tuskegee’ myth was put around by the owner, with no documentary evidence being produced, only the claim of some red paint supposedly being found on the tail section (no photos have been produced to support this) so “it must have served with the 332nd FG” (based on no evidence other than the fact it was shipped to Italy and some red paint was allegedly found on the tail section).
The story has now grown over time, so that it is now claimed to be George Hardy’s original “Tall in the Saddle” and the red paint has supposedly been proven by analysis to be original 332nd FG paint (a claim made in a recent ‘Flight Journal’ article)
I’m calling BS on the whole myth.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:19 pm
Been doing research as of late on a PT-19 mil serial # 42-83511.
I have research details and the aircraft record card from Maxwell AFB Records as well as a USAAC Incident Report at Tuskegee AAF.
A peer review and other insights by fellow WIX'ers to confirm our research to-date would be welcome...
BTW your feedback was very valuable for the static restoration of the F4C at KVTA and the F-105B at KZZV...
I have research details and the aircraft record card from Maxwell AFB Records as well as a USAAC Incident Report at Tuskegee AAF.
A peer review and other insights by fellow WIX'ers to confirm our research to-date would be welcome...
BTW your feedback was very valuable for the static restoration of the F4C at KVTA and the F-105B at KZZV...
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:58 am
Rauhbatz,
From the USAAF IARC's PT-19Bs assigned to Tuskegee
PT-19Bs 42-83500 to 42-83539 (40 a/c) were initially assigned to "Tuskegee, Ala.", circa November 1943.
As far as I can see 42-82511 is the one only of the above batch with a currently valid certificate of registration.
42-83511
Accepted 16 November 1943
Arrived Atlanta 18 Nov.
Arrived AAFFTD Tuskegee 19 Nov.
Reassigned to Robins ASC, 4117 Base Air Squadron 27 Jun (1944)
Cincinnati Aircraft Ferry 31 Aug (1944)
Transferred to Reconstruction Finance Corporation 29 Aug 1944. (For storage and eventual surplus sale.)
If you can email me via the WIX PM system I can give you a little more help.
Tony Broadhurst
From the USAAF IARC's PT-19Bs assigned to Tuskegee
PT-19Bs 42-83500 to 42-83539 (40 a/c) were initially assigned to "Tuskegee, Ala.", circa November 1943.
As far as I can see 42-82511 is the one only of the above batch with a currently valid certificate of registration.
42-83511
Accepted 16 November 1943
Arrived Atlanta 18 Nov.
Arrived AAFFTD Tuskegee 19 Nov.
Reassigned to Robins ASC, 4117 Base Air Squadron 27 Jun (1944)
Cincinnati Aircraft Ferry 31 Aug (1944)
Transferred to Reconstruction Finance Corporation 29 Aug 1944. (For storage and eventual surplus sale.)
If you can email me via the WIX PM system I can give you a little more help.
Tony Broadhurst
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:01 am
Tony...very grateful for your quick research and peer review of my findings. Needless to say we are quite excited.
Will drop you a note under WIX PM with some attachments...would welcome more insights.
Will drop you a note under WIX PM with some attachments...would welcome more insights.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:55 pm
Tony...thanks for all the content you sent. The Noel Parrish angle on PTs was amazing...
I did forward the content Archie from Maxwell AFB records as well as other info.
Would welcome your thoughts on what I offered up for review...same goes for other WIX'ers as well.
I did forward the content Archie from Maxwell AFB records as well as other info.
Would welcome your thoughts on what I offered up for review...same goes for other WIX'ers as well.
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 pm
jdvoss wrote:Vultee BT-13 Valiant
I am still looking for a period photo of a TU marked BT-13 and a Beech AT-10 as well. My need is to complete the aircraft photos for Tuskegee AAF portion of my website of http://www.fuselagecodes.com . I have original color photos already posted of the AT-6 and B-25. As a point of interest the PT-17's DID NOT carry "TU" markings per a T.O edict. Of course that didn't mean it didn't happen! See my photo gallery for the stateside British Flying Training Schools.
Please keep me in mind when reviewing Tuskegee photos.
Thanking you in advance,
JDVoss
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
JD,
While these images don't show the TU fuselage code on the BT-13 aircraft, they are of BT-13's at Tuskegee Field. Much higher resolution versions of the images available via the links.
Jordan
"Officer returns salute as he passes the cadets lined up during review.", ca. 1941 - ca. 1945 - NARA - 535831
National Archives at College Park
, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
First Tuskeegee Class
usaf, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:59 pm
jdvoss wrote:Vultee BT-13 Valiant
I am still looking for a period photo of a TU marked BT-13 and a Beech AT-10 as well. My need is to complete the aircraft photos for Tuskegee AAF portion of my website of http://www.fuselagecodes.com . I have original color photos already posted of the AT-6 and B-25. As a point of interest the PT-17's DID NOT carry "TU" markings per a T.O edict. Of course that didn't mean it didn't happen! See my photo gallery for the stateside British Flying Training Schools.
Please keep me in mind when reviewing Tuskegee photos.
Thanking you in advance,
JDVoss
http://www.fuselagecodes.com
JD,
Here is a TU coded BT-13 with a group of nurses at Tuskegee.
Jordan
Group portrait of nurses stationed at Tusekegee Army Air Field in flight uniforms with parachutes, undated. by Web Master, on Flickr
Re: Surviving Tuskegee Airman Aircraft - seeking PT pics...
Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:19 pm
Hi all...thanks for the great feedback on PT-19 mil serial # 42-83511. And Tony...we shared your research with our CAF Airbase Georgia team...very compelling..
I have some across some pics of PT-19s at Tuskegee...likely the ultimate long shot but would welcome others especially if somehow it shows 42-83511.
Regrets I have no idea what the "buzz number" was on that airplane...but if anyone was to dig something up on this aircraft it would only be the WIX gang...
Look for more coming about our plans to highlight the very special history of this aircraft...
I have some across some pics of PT-19s at Tuskegee...likely the ultimate long shot but would welcome others especially if somehow it shows 42-83511.
Regrets I have no idea what the "buzz number" was on that airplane...but if anyone was to dig something up on this aircraft it would only be the WIX gang...
Look for more coming about our plans to highlight the very special history of this aircraft...