Flying Tigers: Other Squadron Aircraft

[Warbird Kid]

Of course the Flying Tigers will forever be associated with the legendary P-40 Warhawk / Kittyhawk. But what other aircraft did the group have? Leftover Buffalos? Base hack T6's or some other aircraft? Any idea AND any pictures around showing other aircraft would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[mike furline]

I don't know who flew it, but P-43's were present.

[Matt Gunsch]

Robert Scott mentioned in his book that he flew a P-43 over Everest

[Saville]

For a short time, Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Demons were part of the AVG.

In Erik Schilling's book, "Destiny"* He mentions taking a CW-21 Demon for a ride.

He was astonoshed by the performance. CAMCO owned the plane and was using it to tool up to build 33 CW-21's for the Chinese government.

A light plane with a 1000hp 2 stage supercharger - it was a high performer.

Shilling wrote that he tried to get Chennault to obtain some of the Demons to shoot down high flying Japanese recon planes. He didn't write what the outcome of that was.


However Wiki says:

"The three Curtiss-built aircraft were shipped to China in May 1940 and were eventually handed over to the 1st American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers), who intended to use them to tackle high-flying Japanese reconnaissance aircraft. These crashed and were destroyed, due to poor visibility, on a flight from Rangoon to Kunming on 23 December 1941. Of the 27 to be assembled by CAMCO, none were completed before CAMCO was forced by advancing Japanese forces to evacuate its Loiwing factory to India in 1942."



According to Wiki, a total of 62 were built and some were used by China and others by the Dutch East Indies Army Air Force.

Wiki entry has some interesting comments about the plane. It was designed to be an interceptor designed to shoot down bombers from a standing start with minimal notice and therefore was not to be used to dogfight opposition but to escape by its 5000+ fpm (according to "Destiny") climb rate.

Another interesting comment was by an Army Air Force test pilot testing the CW-21:

"Although the CW-21 was not commissioned by the U.S. military, it was test flown at Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio. The Army Air Corps immediately rejected the aircraft, with one officer commenting that it took a genius to land it."


* I have a signed copy of Shilling's book and had one extremely interesting phone conversation with him. Nice guy. One source says he was a clandestine pilot early in the Vietnam war. But he didn't write about that in his book. At the time I spoke with him, I believe he was building a biplane to fly. IIRC a Steen Skybolt. Or maybe a Starduster, Alas, like so many other WWII veterans he has Gone West.

[shrike]

For a short time, Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Demons were part of the AVG.

In Erik Schilling's book, "Destiny"* He mentions taking a CW-21 Demon for a ride.

He was astonoshed by the performance. CAMCO owned the plane and was using it to tool up to build 33 CW-21's for the Chinese government.

A light plane with a 1000hp 2 stage supercharger - it was a high performer.

Shilling wrote that he tried to get Chennault to obtain some of the Demons to shoot down high flying Japanese recon planes. He didn't write what the outcome of that was.

Back in Ye Olden Dayes of Usenet, Erik was a regular on a few of the boards. I second the nice guy part, but also remember him being merciless with know-it-alls.

He told of his first flight in a CW-21 (personal gift of Madame Chang), being disappointed in the rate of climb until his ears popped violently, and he realized the altimeter was in Meters, not Feet.

[gemmer]

For a short time, Curtiss-Wright CW-21 Demons were part of the AVG.

In Erik Schilling's book, "Destiny"* He mentions taking a CW-21 Demon for a ride.

He was astonoshed by the performance. CAMCO owned the plane and was using it to tool up to build 33 CW-21's for the Chinese government.

A light plane with a 1000hp 2 stage supercharger - it was a high performer.

Shilling wrote that he tried to get Chennault to obtain some of the Demons to shoot down high flying Japanese recon planes. He didn't write what the outcome of that was.


However Wiki says:

"The three Curtiss-built aircraft were shipped to China in May 1940 and were eventually handed over to the 1st American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers), who intended to use them to tackle high-flying Japanese reconnaissance aircraft. These crashed and were destroyed, due to poor visibility, on a flight from Rangoon to Kunming on 23 December 1941. Of the 27 to be assembled by CAMCO, none were completed before CAMCO was forced by advancing Japanese forces to evacuate its Loiwing factory to India in 1942."



According to Wiki, a total of 62 were built and some were used by China and others by the Dutch East Indies Army Air Force.

Wiki entry has some interesting comments about the plane. It was designed to be an interceptor designed to shoot down bombers from a standing start with minimal notice and therefore was not to be used to dogfight opposition but to escape by its 5000+ fpm (according to "Destiny") climb rate.

Another interesting comment was by an Army Air Force test pilot testing the CW-21:

"Although the CW-21 was not commissioned by the U.S. military, it was test flown at Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio. The Army Air Corps immediately rejected the aircraft, with one officer commenting that it took a genius to land it."


* I have a signed copy of Shilling's book and had one extremely interesting phone conversation with him. Nice guy. One source says he was a clandestine pilot early in the Vietnam war. But he didn't write about that in his book. At the time I spoke with him, I believe he was building a biplane to fly. IIRC a Steen Skybolt. Or maybe a Starduster, Alas, like so many other WWII veterans he has Gone West.

The CW-21's 1820 engine had a two speed supercharger, not a two stage.

[Randy Wilson]

For what it is worth, from "Curtiss Aircraft 1907-1947" by Peter M. Bowers, page 461. A total of four CW-21s were built:

"The first CW-21, NX19431, was sold by the St. Louis Airplane Division to the Curtiss-Wright Export Sales Division in February 1939, and was sent to China as a demonstrator. It was eventually sold to the Chinese, who promptly crashed it. Three others, built in March 1940, and fitted with 1,000 hp Cyclone engines, were then sold to China but all were lost on the ferry flight from Rangoon to their base in China. US registrations: 19431, 19941/19943. C/ns: 21-1/21-4."

Randy

[lucky52]

They are still there somewhere then.Did any of the pilots survive that ferry mission?

[mike furline]

[Saville]

Back in Ye Olden Dayes of Usenet, Erik was a regular on a few of the boards. I second the nice guy part, but also remember him being merciless with know-it-alls.

I remember one ...uhhh disagreement.... he had with Dan Ford - author of a book on the AVG - over which version of the P-40 the AVG flew and whether or not they had self-sealing fuel tanks.

The CW-21, by the way, did not have self-sealing tanks according to Shilling.

[marine air]

The A.V.G. had B-25's, Tex Hill himself told me he had flown them. They also had PT-22's as they were to train some of the Chinese to fly.

[bdk]

I believe there were P-66s as well.

[Warbird Kid]

Speaking of PT-22s.

"P-40C Tomahawk IIA with the AVG Flying Tigers receiving needed maintenance alongside a Ryan PT-22 Recruit trainer at Kunming, China, Nov 1941-Spring 1942"

https://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=17895

[Lon Moer]

The PT-22 has the Kinner radial engine, that is a PT-21/STM-2 with the Menasco C4-S engine.

[Ol Paint]

Back in Ye Olden Dayes of Usenet, Erik was a regular on a few of the boards. I second the nice guy part, but also remember him being merciless with know-it-alls.

I remember one ...uhhh disagreement.... he had with Dan Ford - author of a book on the AVG - over which version of the P-40 the AVG flew and whether or not they had self-sealing fuel tanks.

The CW-21, by the way, did not have self-sealing tanks according to Shilling.

I ran across this archive of Usenet postings a long time back (circa 2001-2004) that have some posts by Erik Schilling. Some of which appear to be parts of the discussions you reference.
https://yarchive.net/mil/p40.html
https://yarchive.net/mil/ford_book.html
https://yarchive.net/mil/avg_record.html
https://yarchive.net/mil/avg_tactics.html

Some other postings that were archived:
https://yarchive.net/mil/kill_claims.html
https://yarchive.net/mil/bell_yfm1_horrors.html

The CW-21 sounded like an interesting aircraft. Too bad there don't appear to have been any survivors or much readily available information on how it actually stacked up against its contemporaries.

Doug